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[Music]

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so

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[Music]

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greetings and salutations friends and

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welcome back to truth seekers

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i am pleased and delighted and excited

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today this morning to tell you

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uh that we'll be interviewing david j

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halperin

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who is the author of this new book which

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i've been enjoying immensely much thanks

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to him for uh for hooking me up with his

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new book

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intimate alien the hidden story of the

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ufo

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i've got to tell you that i've been

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looking into ufos since my own

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experience as a child

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and i sort of reached an impasse after a

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while of looking into the nuts and bolts

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of these things

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is it really physical phenomenon people

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report seeing physical craft

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but the more that i study this

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phenomenon the more i believed or began

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to believe that there is

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more to it than simply nuts and bolts

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there has to be grant cameron and other

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researchers talk about

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there may be a component of human

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consciousness involved in the phenomenon

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i was fascinated to hear that someone

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who was a

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very educated man a religious scholar

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in the form of david halperin was also

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so interested

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in this phenomenon and he brings us what

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i believe will be

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a book that people interested in the

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phenomenon will be reading and talking

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about for decades to come

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it's that important of a work uh so

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without further ado i want to bring in

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our guest

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david halperin good to see you good

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morning

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here stephen

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yes my pleasure i really did enjoy the

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book

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i think i want to jump right in and

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first ask you

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to talk about your your background and

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your education

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in religious studies and can you tell us

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how did that

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inform or change or relate to your

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opinion on the phenomenon of ufos

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well i was a ufologist before i was a

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religious study scholar that i became a

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ufologist

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when i was 12 going on 13 and

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we can talk at some point about just

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how i did that just how that happened to

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me

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and when i went to college i

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as most teenage ufo investigators did

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i say well that's most people are not a

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teenager i've heard of like kalkwarf and

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a few others being like 14 and 15 like

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you

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and just starting jumping in right right

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as a teenager right so you've been into

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this thing

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since you were a child really oh yeah

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and i mean

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apparently this is not common now but

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when i was a kid

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there were lots of teen ufologists alas

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almost all of us boys

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it didn't seem to occur it didn't seem

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to attract

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girls but there were a lot of us i would

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have to say

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dateless boys who you are are you saying

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you were a nerd

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a ufo nerdy kid i could imagine

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i can relate let's just spell it i was

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an

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nerd yes yeah me too definitely

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yeah so what what was it

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as a child that started you on the ufo

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road then i asked everybody what got you

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started down the rabbit hole

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i read gray barker's they knew too much

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about flying saucers oh that's a classic

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book

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and it seemed to me

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absolutely and unquestionably true

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and it wasn't until many years later

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that i

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understood why it seemed to me so true

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and that is that i knew the men in black

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the those sinister forces that keep the

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truth suppressed

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i knew them from personal experience

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you knew some men in black well not

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literally

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but i grew up with a terrible secret

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like the secret that they were supposed

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to

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was slowly dying of a heart condition

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and we just were not allowed to talk

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about that

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in my house so the idea that there is

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something so awful

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you can't face it and there are

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take it out of your hide if you insist

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on

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talking about it to me was the simple

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truth

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that no one other than grey barker

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was willing to speak so i believed in

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ufos because i believed in the men

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in black and i believed in the men in

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black

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because i could feel them in my life

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and i became a ufologist for

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a number of reasons but one of them was

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to try

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to stem the alien invasion

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that i knew was happening in our own

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and to keep my mother from dying

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which of course failed yeah you do

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you do talk a lot in the book about

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perhaps the

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uh the the relation between our

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mortality

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and this mythology of ufos and aliens

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i've often thought that

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there's some deep rooted psychological

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need and i felt this myself

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to just feel less alone

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like somehow if i could prove the

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existence of intelligent

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life elsewhere in the universe i would

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feel less alone somehow

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i would know there are others can you

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talk a little bit about the psychology

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of what went into your book

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and and and your your sort of

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interesting slant on where you think

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some some portions at least of the

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phenomenon come from

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well i was i i would point to two

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influences on me

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one is carl jung's classic

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book on flying saucers a modern

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myth of things seen in our time

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which was first published in 1958 in

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german

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and then in english in 1959

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and i read it when i was a teen ufo just

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and of course i couldn't

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make head or tail out of it because i

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didn't really understand

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the key point that when jung

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called ufos a myth

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he wasn't trying to disparage

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or belittle them on the contrary

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for jung a myth

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is a kind of collective dream

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of our culture and our species

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which comes bringing

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some of the profoundest truths of all

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and although i didn't really understand

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the book

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and i ignored it in favor of

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the more nuts and bolts approaches of

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say donald kehoe or a may

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michelle it still left its mark on me

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and then when i was 22 years old

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and i was living in in california

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i was introduced quite by accident

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to jacques valley i'm a big fan of jack

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valet

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yeah and he had just published the year

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before

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his passport to magonya

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now i don't know if your

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viewers are familiar with the passport

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to magonia

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should we talk about that a lot yeah

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sure why don't you talk about it a

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little bit

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i i vaguely remember reading that when i

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was

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much younger but having trouble getting

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through it because it was a little bit

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more philosophical than i was prepared

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to deal with

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yeah well valet made the

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observation which in retrospect

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seems obvious but no one wanted to no

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one wanted to point it out before valet

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that there's a tremendous overlap

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between

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the stories of ufos and

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ufo aliens and ufo abductions

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which had just begun to appear when he

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wrote that book

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and legends of fairies and elves

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yes and and i mean valee might have

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concluded from that well

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fairies and elves don't exist but

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and then and obviously ufos don't either

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but he took a very different tack which

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was to say

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that all of these are witnesses to some

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reality

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that is earthly that

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is not exactly a human reality

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but intersects with it and he called

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that

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reality megonya

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on the basis of a medieval legend

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of ships that come in the clouds

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from a place called magogna land of the

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and after reading this i saw yeah

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yeah everything that i had learned about

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ufos

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and everything i picked up from jung

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all of it now made sense

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and i understood fully

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why in my undergraduate

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work i had gone i had majored in semitic

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studies and spent

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most of my undergraduate time studying

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hebrew

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why i was drawn so powerfully

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to the book of ezekiel that is

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me too by the way me too by the way

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really

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oh i uh i had i so i talked to you

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briefly i had 12 years of catholic

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school and scripture study with the

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jesuits

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and i was always fascinated with uh you

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know

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uh with this the stories of the fallen

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angels and with ezekiel's wheel

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there's a lot of biblical connection to

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this phenomenon

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oh yeah yeah i mean

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that i do think as what ezekiel

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describes

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in the first chapter of his book is a

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ufo

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but to me and this is crucial

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ufos are not spaceships

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ufos are some part

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of our internal human

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reality the sort of thing that ballet

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called magonia

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jung called the collective unconscious

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yeah this is kind of mind-blowing

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reading through a book and going

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maybe all these people out there looking

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for crashed ufo debris are totally wrong

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and this thing is all consciousness

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based

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and and it has something to do with our

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psychology and our

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belief you know and and again you're

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right there's this

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interesting parallel before people used

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to see angels

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or demons yeah and then now they see

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grey aliens yeah yeah

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i maybe believe there's some connection

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to the to this

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some thread some common thread and i

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would

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speaking of ufo

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sightings to speak of ufo

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visions that we are dealing

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with visionary experience

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akin to what's been reported through the

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ages

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by religious mystics

290
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:43,920
now it was not an accident that not long

291
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:44,800
after

292
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:47,920
meeting valet and entering graduate

293
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:49,199
school

294
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:52,240
i started focusing on a

295
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:55,440
form of ancient jewish mysticism

296
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:58,399
called the descent to the merkava the

297
00:15:03,030 --> 00:14:59,839
merkava

298
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:03,040
being the rabbinic term

299
00:15:10,829 --> 00:15:06,399
the hebrew term for

300
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:10,839
the totality of what ezekiel saw and

301
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:12,079
described

302
00:15:15,269 --> 00:15:14,240
and there do seem to have been jewish

303
00:15:19,509 --> 00:15:15,279
mystics

304
00:15:22,710 --> 00:15:19,519
who tried to re-experience that

305
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:22,720
and that was what i spent my time

306
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:25,600
researching as a graduate student and

307
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:27,839
now when we look at it from

308
00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:30,399
a perspective of another 50 years we can

309
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:31,040
say

310
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:34,800
yeah i never gave up ufology

311
00:15:38,790 --> 00:15:36,880
you just twisted your focus yeah you

312
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:38,800
switched your focus to a more religious

313
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:39,519
or

314
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:45,440
right to see if we get to the roots of

315
00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:46,720
these things

316
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:48,800
yeah i'm fascinated with ezekiel's wheel

317
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:50,560
but then i sort of agree with some

318
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:51,040
people

319
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:52,720
with going what does god need with a

320
00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:54,240
spaceship right

321
00:15:58,949 --> 00:15:56,959
yeah because it wasn't a spaceship it

322
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:58,959
had nothing to do with spaceships that's

323
00:16:03,590 --> 00:16:01,440
a conventionalization

324
00:16:05,829 --> 00:16:03,600
yeah or it's a convenient it's a

325
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:05,839
convenient storyline for people who are

326
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:06,639
ancient

327
00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:09,120
alien theorists right well look in the

328
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:10,480
bible there's this

329
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:13,600
flying saucer that ezekiel saw and i've

330
00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:15,600
always thought that that was

331
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:17,440
kind of a cop out i think it was a

332
00:16:19,509 --> 00:16:19,279
little more mystical of an experience

333
00:16:24,069 --> 00:16:19,519
and

334
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:24,079
physical craft it was some sort of

335
00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:27,279
you're right visionary event right yeah

336
00:16:34,470 --> 00:16:31,120
and something that was beyond

337
00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:34,480
ezekiel's conscious

338
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:38,040
awareness something beyond his

339
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:40,000
categorizing

340
00:16:44,310 --> 00:16:43,279
and so he he had to call it visions of

341
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,320
god

342
00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:46,720
because he didn't know what else to call

343
00:16:49,910 --> 00:16:47,680
it

344
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:49,920
and represented as speaking in the

345
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:50,880
language

346
00:16:55,030 --> 00:16:54,480
of his god son of man i send you to the

347
00:16:58,150 --> 00:16:55,040
house of

348
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:58,160
israel to a rebellious house that has

349
00:17:03,189 --> 00:16:59,920
rebelled against me

350
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:03,199
very strange speech if coming from

351
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:04,240
intergalactic

352
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:09,120
visitors but if you suppose

353
00:17:12,630 --> 00:17:11,360
that this is something ezekiel

354
00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:12,640
encountered

355
00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:16,319
from his own unconscious and had to put

356
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:17,120
into

357
00:17:23,829 --> 00:17:20,240
the categories of his culture

358
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:23,839
as we put it into the categories of ours

359
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:28,079
when we say oh it's ancient aliens

360
00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:32,080
then it starts to make sense

361
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:34,480
yeah and i i i love this blurb on your

362
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:35,360
book

363
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:37,760
it says ufos are a myth says david j

364
00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:39,679
halperin but myths are real

365
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:42,320
the power and fascination of the ufo and

366
00:17:45,110 --> 00:17:43,919
this is a bold statement and i had to

367
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,120
really think about this

368
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:47,120
the fascination of the ufo has nothing

369
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:49,280
to do with space travel or life on

370
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:52,240
other planets it's about us our longings

371
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:54,240
and terrors and especially our greatest

372
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:54,880
terror of

373
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:57,600
all the end of our existence this is a

374
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:59,280
book about ufos that goes beyond

375
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:01,679
believing in them we're debunking them

376
00:18:05,909 --> 00:18:03,840
into a fresh understanding of what they

377
00:18:09,190 --> 00:18:05,919
tell us about ourselves as individuals

378
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:09,200
as a culture and as a species

379
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:12,400
what is the link between our terror

380
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:14,559
of the end of our existence and the ufo

381
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:15,600
phenomenon then

382
00:18:20,789 --> 00:18:18,480
in your view i think that's what

383
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:20,799
underlies roswell

384
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:24,000
because if you think about it roswell is

385
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:25,200
a story of

386
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:28,960
death and it is a story

387
00:18:34,070 --> 00:18:32,880
of the death of what we might have

388
00:18:39,669 --> 00:18:34,080
called

389
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:39,679
selec celestial or supernatural beings

390
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:42,480
so that when people say okay there was a

391
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:46,480
spaceship that crashed at roswell

392
00:18:51,669 --> 00:18:49,679
they're literally they're wrong there

393
00:18:53,350 --> 00:18:51,679
was no crash

394
00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:53,360
we've done an entire we've done an

395
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:54,960
entire series on roswell

396
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:57,760
and i was excited that you had a totally

397
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:59,679
different perspective on roswell than

398
00:19:03,590 --> 00:19:01,120
our other experts

399
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:03,600
we've had don schmidt and tom carrey and

400
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:05,600
kalkwarf and

401
00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:07,600
kevin randle everybody giving their

402
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:09,840
perspective and when i came across this

403
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:11,039
roswell

404
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:14,160
chapter i kind of went there's another

405
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:16,799
possibility maybe everybody is is

406
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:18,559
missing the point here

407
00:19:22,710 --> 00:19:20,640
so that the the death of celestial

408
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:22,720
beings i'm sorry to interrupt you

409
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:25,440
can you talk more about roswell and what

410
00:19:30,070 --> 00:19:26,240
what do you

411
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:30,080
feel is the root of the roswell

412
00:19:36,230 --> 00:19:33,280
legend then it's about death

413
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:36,240
it's about the death of celestial beings

414
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:37,600
yes yes that

415
00:19:44,789 --> 00:19:41,760
i called it that that at one point

416
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:44,799
in the book i said that at some point

417
00:19:52,789 --> 00:19:48,240
roswell ceased to be a banal

418
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:52,799
mystery of fallen debris

419
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:56,559
and became a profound

420
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:00,240
and gripping myth of mortal

421
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:05,360
divinity and i

422
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:08,640
yeah yeah that i think

423
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:11,919
as this myth of mortal divinity

424
00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:16,000
it's a mirror of ourselves

425
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:20,000
as child-like beings

426
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:23,760
facing a fate

427
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:27,840
that we can neither ward off

428
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:31,360
nor understand

429
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,000
and that is the root of its fascination

430
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:39,039
and that is the essential truth of it

431
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:41,600
that's why roswell has hung on for so

432
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:42,400
long

433
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:45,440
and why it's not going to go away yeah

434
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:47,520
it's become a myth right after a while

435
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:49,280
and people tap on to the story and

436
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:50,320
there's additions

437
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:52,400
and then people try to profit from

438
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:54,480
connecting their new story

439
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:57,120
somehow connected to roswell and and the

440
00:21:02,549 --> 00:20:58,720
myth just keeps growing

441
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:02,559
right every little bit and everybody you

442
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:04,640
see if you mention roswell to them they

443
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:06,159
immediately know what you're talking

444
00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:07,200
about

445
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:08,960
yeah even people not into this stuff

446
00:21:13,350 --> 00:21:10,320
sure they've heard of it at least

447
00:21:14,830 --> 00:21:13,360
yeah i mean i remember going

448
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:14,840
a couple of years ago to my

449
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:17,200
dermatologist carrying a copy of

450
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:19,919
kevin randle's book roswell in the 21st

451
00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:21,120
century

452
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:24,720
and for first comes the uh

453
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:27,280
the assistant and she looks at it and

454
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:27,840
says oh

455
00:21:31,029 --> 00:21:29,600
is that a good book and i started

456
00:21:33,510 --> 00:21:31,039
talking about it

457
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:33,520
and then in comes the dermatologist says

458
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:35,600
oh is that a good book

459
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:37,440
and you know it's like both of these

460
00:21:43,029 --> 00:21:41,440
people you know they're not ufologists

461
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:43,039
yeah that one's breaking broke through

462
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:44,799
to the mainstream and even people that

463
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:45,200
aren't

464
00:21:49,750 --> 00:21:47,679
really intensely interested in ufos

465
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:49,760
still may read a roswell book

466
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:53,520
it's big business and when you read

467
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:56,960
and in com a comic strip that talks

468
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:58,320
about roswell

469
00:22:01,350 --> 00:21:59,679
people are going to know what you're

470
00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:01,360
talking about just as

471
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:05,520
when you met somebody mentions area 51

472
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:07,520
i mean people don't really know just

473
00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:10,320
what that has to do with ufos

474
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:13,200
but they know that there's something

475
00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:14,559
connecting it

476
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:16,880
definitely something connecting yeah

477
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:17,760
yeah

478
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:20,559
and your your your belief though about

479
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:21,520
about

480
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:24,240
our mortality and our consciousness and

481
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:24,799
our

482
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:28,720
something to do

483
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:31,919
and i also heard you uh talk about can

484
00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:34,960
uh can a

485
00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:37,120
consciousness construct or a psychic

486
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:39,200
construct show up on radar

487
00:22:45,669 --> 00:22:42,559
and i was fascinated by this yeah that

488
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:45,679
that was it from jung because

489
00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:48,960
jung was troubled jung

490
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:54,080
was convinced that the ufos were a myth

491
00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:56,159
that which for him remember meant

492
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:58,400
they're tremendously important

493
00:23:02,149 --> 00:23:00,159
most people today say oh they're a myth

494
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:02,159
we can forget about them young said

495
00:23:06,870 --> 00:23:04,640
no they're a myth and therefore they

496
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:06,880
demand our attention they're telling us

497
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:07,760
something

498
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:11,039
absolutely vital about ourselves but

499
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:11,679
then

500
00:23:18,149 --> 00:23:15,120
he was troubled how can they be

501
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:18,159
photographed how can they appear on

502
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:19,840
radar

503
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:23,200
and he had to choose

504
00:23:30,390 --> 00:23:26,880
between two equally

505
00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:30,400
difficult options one is

506
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:34,640
that psychic projections

507
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:38,320
can take on physical reality

508
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:41,679
which he couldn't quite believe and the

509
00:23:48,549 --> 00:23:45,520
other is that real visitors

510
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:48,559
real spaceships or something

511
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:52,080
became the stimulus for psychic

512
00:23:55,750 --> 00:23:53,520
projections

513
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:55,760
it's something like what thomas e

514
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:57,360
bullard wrote to me

515
00:24:01,190 --> 00:23:59,679
several years ago he said that if we are

516
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:01,200
being visited

517
00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:04,080
by beings from outer space they are

518
00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:04,720
mostly

519
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:08,480
innocent bystanders to our inner psychic

520
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:12,960
conflicts and jung had to

521
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:16,080
had to make that choice and he waffled

522
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:19,760
kind of back and forth as to which one

523
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:23,840
he which one he favored i'm going to say

524
00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:27,600
that they are purely psychic projections

525
00:24:32,630 --> 00:24:30,640
that the radar sightings have to be

526
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:32,640
explained in other ways

527
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:35,279
we have to pay attention not only to

528
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:36,559
those cases

529
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:39,600
where the radar and the visual evidence

530
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:42,559
confirm each other but also to those

531
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:44,000
many cases

532
00:24:48,870 --> 00:24:47,360
where blips appear on radar and nobody

533
00:24:52,149 --> 00:24:48,880
sees anything

534
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:52,159
or where people see

535
00:24:55,830 --> 00:24:54,559
visual objects and they don't appear in

536
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:55,840
radar

537
00:25:03,110 --> 00:24:59,279
and suppose that

538
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:03,120
there are no solid objects

539
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:06,640
operating which may explain the lack of

540
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:07,360
evidence

541
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:09,520
right yeah and also i find it

542
00:25:13,029 --> 00:25:10,880
fascinating that a lot of people

543
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:13,039
speculate about the pilots there's even

544
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:14,000
books written about

545
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:16,880
like who's driving the ufos and people

546
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:18,240
would speculate about

547
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:21,120
different alien races and so maybe

548
00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:22,799
people have it wrong and instead of

549
00:25:27,269 --> 00:25:24,159
looking for the pilots

550
00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:27,279
of these ufos we should be looking for

551
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,799
the people who are psychically

552
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:30,640
projecting them right

553
00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:33,200
yeah as it's possible right that some

554
00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:35,039
people near these sightings may be

555
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:36,720
manifesting these things

556
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:39,200
and may not even be aware of it

557
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:41,200
consciously right

558
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:44,640
yeah yeah i mean they're there they're

559
00:25:48,470 --> 00:25:47,919
there's a repeated theme that the ufo

560
00:25:52,230 --> 00:25:48,480
beings

561
00:25:55,110 --> 00:25:52,240
interact with or imitate the actions

562
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:55,120
of the people who watch which will make

563
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:57,360
sense if there are projections

564
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:01,440
of these people in a sense we can say

565
00:26:08,549 --> 00:26:05,279
the pilots of the ufos are us

566
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:08,559
i mean the raw that's very deep thing to

567
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:09,360
consider

568
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:12,480
and and maybe these psychic projections

569
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:14,400
take different forms throughout history

570
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:15,600
you know back in the day

571
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:17,200
these psychic projections would take the

572
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:19,440
form of ghosts or fairies or

573
00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:22,480
angels and now people

574
00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:24,159
having their psyche influenced by

575
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:25,760
science fiction and

576
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:28,080
and modern science are now taking a

577
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:30,000
different form

578
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:33,679
yeah yeah interesting to think about

579
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:37,120
i mean the the the the aliens at roswell

580
00:26:45,269 --> 00:26:40,960
to me are children they have small

581
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:45,279
spindly bodies large heads

582
00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:48,559
and if you want proof of that think back

583
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:52,320
to i think it was in 2015 wasn't it

584
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:55,440
the roswell slides yeah

585
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:57,919
the hoax yeah and we have a mummified

586
00:27:02,310 --> 00:26:59,039
child

587
00:27:03,350 --> 00:27:02,320
exactly they were perfectly genuine

588
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:03,360
slides

589
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:06,480
of a mummified two-year-old

590
00:27:13,269 --> 00:27:10,400
that were found in the uh among the

591
00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:13,279
kodachrome slides of a lady who was

592
00:27:18,310 --> 00:27:14,159
known to be

593
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:18,320
a uh uh an inveterate traveler she'd

594
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:19,679
photographed

595
00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:22,720
this mummy in i think was the

596
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:25,600
the museum of the mesa verde national

597
00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:26,159
park

598
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:28,159
and they were perfectly genuine slides

599
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:29,520
there was not there

600
00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:32,880
there was no hoaxing about them yet

601
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:36,399
for no obvious reason

602
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:40,000
huge numbers of people including

603
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:43,039
neil degrasse tyson

604
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:46,720
assumed that the upon looking at them

605
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:50,320
that they were alien beings

606
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,399
yeah that's very interesting to me and i

607
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:54,240
always find it interesting that that

608
00:27:58,149 --> 00:27:55,120
hoaxers

609
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:58,159
and profiteers like to like to connect

610
00:28:02,389 --> 00:27:58,799
their

611
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:02,399
into

612
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:04,399
this thing to roswell we've seen it

613
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:05,600
happen with like

614
00:28:09,510 --> 00:28:07,840
the you know the alien autopsy was

615
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,520
supposed to come from roswell

616
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:11,279
and see what happened with the roswell

617
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:12,480
slides there's something called the

618
00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:14,399
roswell rock that somebody's trying to

619
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:15,520
promote as

620
00:28:19,269 --> 00:28:18,000
it fell off the spaceship at roswell in

621
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:19,279
1947

622
00:28:23,590 --> 00:28:21,600
so if you want to make some money with a

623
00:28:25,350 --> 00:28:23,600
ufo hoax you've got to connect it

624
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:25,360
to roswell because it's an already

625
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:27,520
established accepted mythology

626
00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:30,559
and you can just tack onto it and people

627
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:38,310
at which point the myth takes on new

628
00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:39,440
dimensions

629
00:28:43,669 --> 00:28:42,799
exactly that's how it grows yeah i would

630
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:43,679
say

631
00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:47,600
reflects more truths because what i am

632
00:28:51,029 --> 00:28:48,320
doing

633
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:51,039
is looking for the the for me the

634
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:52,720
essential question

635
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:55,600
is not where do ufos come from it's what

636
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:56,240
do they

637
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:00,320
mean and that meaning

638
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:05,039
reveals truths about ourselves

639
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:08,720
most obviously that we are finite

640
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:12,000
beings yeah and i i love

641
00:29:15,269 --> 00:29:14,240
this this sort of riff you have that

642
00:29:18,149 --> 00:29:15,279
ufos are not

643
00:29:19,990 --> 00:29:18,159
real they are a myth but myths are real

644
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:20,000
and even necessary

645
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:23,200
and can you explain that a bit more yeah

646
00:29:27,269 --> 00:29:25,120
i mean take uh

647
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:27,279
to take an example of a myth i don't

648
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:29,679
know if i i don't want to tread on uh

649
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,840
anybody's religious toes here but i've

650
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:33,440
got oh we're very

651
00:29:37,269 --> 00:29:35,919
open here we're very open you can and

652
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:37,279
you're a religious scholar

653
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:39,200
so uh i would say you're a trusting

654
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:41,440
authority you're very educated in

655
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:42,399
theology

656
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:45,279
and and religion and religious studies

657
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:46,000
so

658
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:48,640
you know say whatever it is you wish

659
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:50,799
here nobody will be offended

660
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:52,880
okay well let's hope nobody's offended

661
00:29:56,710 --> 00:29:55,120
when i say that adam and eve in the

662
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:56,720
garden of eden are myth

663
00:30:03,669 --> 00:29:59,760
is a myth and precisely because

664
00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:03,679
it is a myth it is profoundly true

665
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:06,159
one of the levels in which it's true is

666
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:08,240
that it explores

667
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:12,080
the relationship between sexuality

668
00:30:25,590 --> 00:30:16,480
and mortality and the relationship

669
00:30:33,430 --> 00:30:30,230
serpent speech to eve ye shall not die

670
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:33,440
for god doth know that in the day

671
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:37,200
wherein ye ye shall be as

672
00:30:44,549 --> 00:30:41,360
gods knowing good and evil

673
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:44,559
now that echoes in us

674
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:47,760
because we know that

675
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:51,200
it is telling us something about

676
00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:54,799
what it means to be an a mature

677
00:31:02,389 --> 00:30:58,880
human being making ethical choices

678
00:31:05,509 --> 00:31:02,399
and knowing that we can't go back

679
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:05,519
to the in to the paradise

680
00:31:11,269 --> 00:31:08,720
of childhood and to say

681
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:11,279
some might say ignorance too right we we

682
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:12,240
were we were

683
00:31:15,509 --> 00:31:14,240
naked and ignorant but we were really

684
00:31:17,909 --> 00:31:15,519
happy and then we

685
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:17,919
ate from the tree of knowledge and it's

686
00:31:21,509 --> 00:31:19,760
been all downhill from there i used to

687
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:21,519
have a lot of arguments with catholic

688
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:22,559
theology

689
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:24,880
teacher priests about stuff in the bible

690
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:26,000
i just didn't

691
00:31:30,389 --> 00:31:27,840
you know i didn't i believe that there

692
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:30,399
was lessons to be learned from the bible

693
00:31:34,549 --> 00:31:32,720
for sure but to take it literally was

694
00:31:36,389 --> 00:31:34,559
just a bridge too far from me and you

695
00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:36,399
know there's a lot of inconsistencies

696
00:31:41,190 --> 00:31:38,080
and how could this have happened and

697
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:41,200
how could adam and eve uh have been the

698
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:43,120
progenitors of the entire human race

699
00:31:46,950 --> 00:31:45,039
wouldn't that mean that we're all

700
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:46,960
genetically flawed because brothers and

701
00:31:51,509 --> 00:31:48,559
sisters must have had children

702
00:31:53,590 --> 00:31:51,519
after them right and you know there's a

703
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:53,600
lot of problems with that story but i

704
00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:55,279
think it's a great story and there's

705
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:57,919
lessons to be learned in it for sure

706
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,799
not to mention that snakes don't talk to

707
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:02,880
say that the story is false

708
00:32:07,830 --> 00:32:05,760
because it has talking snakes seems to

709
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:07,840
me to miss the point completely

710
00:32:11,669 --> 00:32:09,679
you know and i had a i had a huge

711
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:11,679
problem with people thinking that the

712
00:32:15,990 --> 00:32:12,840
bible was

713
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:16,000
even accurate as far as the text goes

714
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:17,760
because how could a copy of a copy of a

715
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:18,720
copy of a book

716
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:21,760
but then i recently i i recently was

717
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:23,120
reminded that

718
00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:26,640
the jewish scribes had they were

719
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:28,640
called the counters right because they

720
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:30,880
had to count the letters as they copied

721
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:32,799
the first five books of the bible

722
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:36,080
it had to be word for word letter for

723
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:36,640
letter

724
00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:40,080
exactly copied from scroll to scroll

725
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:42,960
so yeah there's and there's there's

726
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:45,200
historical evidence that we have at

727
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:46,080
least

728
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:48,080
we have two thousand year old bibles

729
00:32:51,029 --> 00:32:50,480
that are exact word for word letter for

730
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:51,039
letter

731
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:53,840
to the modern torah and that's amazing

732
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:56,320
two thousand years of perfect copying

733
00:33:01,350 --> 00:32:59,279
thousands of copies so the reverence

734
00:33:01,909 --> 00:33:01,360
that people put on the bible is amazing

735
00:33:04,389 --> 00:33:01,919
to me

736
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,399
and the level of detail and accuracy of

737
00:33:07,190 --> 00:33:06,320
somebody copying from one scroll to

738
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:07,200
another

739
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:10,080
exactly they had to count the letters

740
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:12,159
and make sure that every letter was

741
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:12,640
there

742
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:15,120
not one more not one less or they would

743
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:16,640
throw out the scroll call

744
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:19,120
flawed and start over and that's a lot

745
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:20,559
of text to copy so

746
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:22,480
kudos to those guys for giving us an

747
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:24,799
accurate bible after you know

748
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:27,600
thousands and thousands of years yeah

749
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:27,840
and

750
00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:33,840
they knew that there was something

751
00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:36,000
incredibly precious here

752
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:38,159
yeah it has to be give that level to

753
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:40,480
give that level of preservation like

754
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:40,880
you're

755
00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:44,320
000 page

756
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:47,360
scroll you just you know do it again you

757
00:33:50,549 --> 00:33:47,919
know

758
00:33:52,149 --> 00:33:50,559
that's amazing to me but the bible is

759
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:52,159
interesting source of a lot of

760
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:55,360
a lot of information and i i've always

761
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:56,720
been fascinated with the stories of the

762
00:33:59,750 --> 00:33:58,880
fallen angels and the nephilim and

763
00:34:01,990 --> 00:33:59,760
things like that

764
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:02,000
what's your take on the nephilim i'm

765
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:03,360
sorry i have to ask that i don't want to

766
00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:04,880
get off track from your book but

767
00:34:09,190 --> 00:34:07,039
the nephilim has fascinated me and

768
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:09,200
you're a biblical scholar and theology

769
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:10,879
professor

770
00:34:13,909 --> 00:34:12,320
what do you think of all these people

771
00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:13,919
that connect aliens

772
00:34:20,069 --> 00:34:17,119
to the nephilim or you know and ancient

773
00:34:22,190 --> 00:34:20,079
alien theories and things like that i'll

774
00:34:24,790 --> 00:34:22,200
use one word

775
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:24,800
conventionalization that they are

776
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:28,399
taking something that is mythical

777
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:31,679
and one feature of myth by the way

778
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:34,720
is that it coalesces different

779
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:37,919
meanings that's one of the reasons why

780
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:39,679
it's so powerful

781
00:34:46,790 --> 00:34:43,040
that they're taking something that is

782
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:46,800
mythical and has multiple meanings

783
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:50,720
and try to cubby-hole it conventionalize

784
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:51,280
it

785
00:34:58,630 --> 00:34:54,960
into something that we know

786
00:35:02,470 --> 00:34:58,640
from our present experience and i think

787
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:02,480
by so doing they diminish it

788
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:07,119
now i do not know what the nephilim were

789
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:10,560
i don't know if the ancient israelites

790
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:13,359
knew what they were i think they're

791
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:13,920
mentioned

792
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:18,160
isn't it that it came out in those days

793
00:35:22,150 --> 00:35:21,119
that the sons of god saw the daughters

794
00:35:26,550 --> 00:35:22,160
of men

795
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:30,069
whoever they chose the

796
00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:32,480
and i think it's the nephilim were on

797
00:35:38,069 --> 00:35:34,960
the earth in those days

798
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:38,079
and also after that yeah after the flood

799
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:39,280
for them

800
00:35:42,790 --> 00:35:41,760
these were the mighty men that were of

801
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:42,800
old

802
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:46,960
the men of renown what mysterious

803
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:50,720
words those are sure

804
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:54,960
and it's their mystery that allows them

805
00:36:02,230 --> 00:35:58,720
to echo within us similarly

806
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:02,240
it's the mystery of the ufos

807
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:05,440
the mystery of roswell

808
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:09,440
that allows them to echo within us

809
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:13,200
a spaceship did not crash at roswell

810
00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:17,839
snakes do not talk nobody came down

811
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:20,560
and had sex with the daughters of men

812
00:36:24,230 --> 00:36:21,280
other than

813
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:24,240
sons of men and other daughters of men

814
00:36:27,589 --> 00:36:25,599
yeah i've always had a problem with that

815
00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:27,599
like how do celestial beings even have

816
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:29,680
sex if they don't have a physical form

817
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:31,200
and that brings in all kinds of

818
00:36:33,829 --> 00:36:32,640
complicated maybe they can take a

819
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:33,839
physical form

820
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:35,920
and then along with the the stories of

821
00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:38,000
them having children it was also just

822
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:40,320
that the fallen angels taught man

823
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:43,040
things like metallurgy and firesmithing

824
00:36:49,750 --> 00:36:44,160
and

825
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:49,760
a bad thing if they were teaching

826
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:51,599
humanity all of this stuff

827
00:36:56,069 --> 00:36:54,640
so isn't it is is it the snake who

828
00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:56,079
brings knowledge

829
00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:58,640
yeah yeah so maybe he wasn't so bad you

830
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:00,480
know that that's why these things

831
00:37:04,630 --> 00:37:02,480
these things are so fascinating to me

832
00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:04,640
and that's why i was a terrible catholic

833
00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:05,680
school boy

834
00:37:09,190 --> 00:37:07,599
because the priests did not like me

835
00:37:12,390 --> 00:37:09,200
asking all these questions

836
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:12,400
you know and yet when you

837
00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:16,320
ask them you are not only

838
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,280
in one sense attacking the

839
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:20,320
fundamentalist believer

840
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:23,280
but you are attacking the debunker who

841
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:25,200
says it's all nonsense

842
00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:28,400
that you're attesting that there is

843
00:37:33,349 --> 00:37:29,440
something

844
00:37:37,109 --> 00:37:33,359
true and powerful here that needs to be

845
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:37,119
heard which is what i try to do

846
00:37:42,630 --> 00:37:40,240
with the ufo which is why although i'll

847
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:42,640
call myself a skeptic

848
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,400
i will not call myself a debunker

849
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:48,400
yeah i that's why i called the show

850
00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:50,079
truth seekers here because

851
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:52,160
i did a previous show and it was a radio

852
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:53,839
show and everybody was like why do you

853
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:55,680
even talk about ufos if you just

854
00:38:00,630 --> 00:37:59,119
beat them up every story you tell

855
00:38:02,630 --> 00:38:00,640
you do this research and then you say

856
00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:02,640
this story is fake and here's why

857
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:05,200
you just debunking everything i say no

858
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:07,200
i'm someone that wants to believe i'm

859
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:08,720
seeking the truth

860
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:11,280
so i'm not a debunker i'm a truth seeker

861
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:12,800
there's a big difference and i found

862
00:38:15,030 --> 00:38:14,079
that a lot in your book like i was a

863
00:38:17,510 --> 00:38:15,040
little bit

864
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:17,520
beat up and disappointed about roswell

865
00:38:20,710 --> 00:38:18,640
because you know i

866
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:20,720
i have my own bias i want to believe it

867
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:22,880
was aliens i want to believe we're not

868
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:24,640
alone in the universe but then

869
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:25,920
when you get into this chapter

870
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:28,000
especially at the roswell chapter

871
00:38:31,349 --> 00:38:30,000
you make a lot of convincing arguments

872
00:38:34,870 --> 00:38:31,359
that this may all be

873
00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:34,880
mythology and projections of our own uh

874
00:38:40,230 --> 00:38:38,320
you know our own fears right like our

875
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:40,240
fears of being alone i have thought and

876
00:38:46,150 --> 00:38:42,960
you're talking about a fear of death

877
00:38:48,870 --> 00:38:46,160
and how that relates to the ufo and

878
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:48,880
aliens like maybe we think they have

879
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,320
some

880
00:38:55,030 --> 00:38:52,320
advanced technology that could make us

881
00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:55,040
immortal right or maybe we think

882
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:57,359
there's all kinds of philosophical areas

883
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:58,400
that you could go to

884
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:00,320
from the jumping point of your book here

885
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,480
which is why i really enjoyed it and

886
00:39:07,589 --> 00:39:04,640
just a different perspective

887
00:39:07,990 --> 00:39:07,599
and how are you finding you know i think

888
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:08,000
that

889
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:10,800
uh you know i mentioned your book to a

890
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:12,480
few people and uh

891
00:39:15,910 --> 00:39:14,160
most that i know that have read it

892
00:39:17,750 --> 00:39:15,920
really enjoyed it but there's going to

893
00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:17,760
be some criticism

894
00:39:22,550 --> 00:39:20,400
from the believer gang and i get that

895
00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:22,560
too so how are you finding the reception

896
00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:23,520
of the book

897
00:39:26,950 --> 00:39:26,000
are you are you shattering people's

898
00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:26,960
beliefs

899
00:39:35,670 --> 00:39:31,040
those

900
00:39:37,349 --> 00:39:35,680
flying saucers

901
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:37,359
yeah i don't think it's too easy to

902
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:39,440
shatter beliefs

903
00:39:47,829 --> 00:39:43,680
that more than shattering beliefs

904
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:47,839
what i would want to do is evoke respect

905
00:39:53,270 --> 00:39:51,200
for the beliefs without believing in

906
00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:53,280
them

907
00:39:58,390 --> 00:39:56,560
wow so that's that's very profound

908
00:39:59,829 --> 00:39:58,400
and uh you know uh one of the other

909
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:59,839
things you talk about is alien

910
00:40:03,430 --> 00:40:00,880
abductions

911
00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:03,440
and uh we've delved into that a little

912
00:40:06,069 --> 00:40:04,319
bit here

913
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:06,079
and i've always failed alien abductions

914
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:07,680
to be so fascinating because you have

915
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:09,440
people from different cultures different

916
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:11,680
religions different parts of the world

917
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:14,880
having similar experiences but then i

918
00:40:19,109 --> 00:40:17,200
then i realized that a lot of people may

919
00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:19,119
be influenced by the same popular

920
00:40:23,109 --> 00:40:20,000
culture

921
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:23,119
globally you know and and there seems to

922
00:40:25,910 --> 00:40:25,040
be a lack of physical evidence we just

923
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:25,920
get a story

924
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:28,000
we don't get you know whitley strider's

925
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:30,079
not showing us the aliens and neither is

926
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:31,520
betty and barney hill

927
00:40:37,510 --> 00:40:35,680
star map which was convincing to me

928
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:37,520
until i found out that it was completely

929
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:39,280
and totally inaccurate

930
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:42,319
as a star map it was total bunk so that

931
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:43,119
blew that

932
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:45,359
story out of the water travis walton is

933
00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:47,040
perhaps the second most famous

934
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:49,920
abduction case and recently he and his

935
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:50,560
former

936
00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:52,480
logging partner who propped up the

937
00:40:55,910 --> 00:40:54,560
stories for 30 years had a big falling

938
00:40:59,030 --> 00:40:55,920
out about money

939
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:59,040
and that partner of his who who has been

940
00:41:02,230 --> 00:40:59,680
helping him

941
00:41:03,109 --> 00:41:02,240
sell the story for 30 years recently

942
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:03,119
suddenly said

943
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:05,040
i'm no longer a witness to the travis

944
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:06,880
walton abduction phenomenon

945
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:08,880
travis walton by the way is claiming

946
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:10,880
that somebody's trying to extort him for

947
00:41:13,750 --> 00:41:11,760
money

948
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:13,760
so now that story is sort of falling

949
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:15,680
apart as well

950
00:41:20,309 --> 00:41:19,280
and it's sad but what do you think the

951
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:20,319
true

952
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:24,480
abduction phenomenon is it wishful

953
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:25,920
thinking is it hoaxers

954
00:41:28,950 --> 00:41:28,160
profiteers or are people having a

955
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:28,960
genuine

956
00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:31,440
experience here i think there's no

957
00:41:34,790 --> 00:41:33,359
question that people are having genuine

958
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:34,800
experience

959
00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:37,119
and if we dwell for a moment on whitley

960
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:38,000
strieber

961
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:41,760
said

962
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:44,880
that he was abducted by aliens he

963
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:48,079
called he spoke of encounters

964
00:42:00,470 --> 00:41:57,030
and he was inclined

965
00:42:01,990 --> 00:42:00,480
to see them as something that's not

966
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:02,000
exactly a part of

967
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:05,040
us he didn't go all the way with carl

968
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:05,920
jung

969
00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:09,280
but close to it see something

970
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:12,319
that seeks communion with

971
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:15,119
us which is where the title of the book

972
00:42:18,390 --> 00:42:16,480
comes from

973
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:18,400
by the way the hebrew translation of the

974
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:20,480
book is called

975
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:30,950
and strieber connected his experiences

976
00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:35,599
with ex archaic experiences

977
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:39,040
he spoke of his visitors as having the

978
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:44,079
wide staring eyes of the old gods

979
00:42:47,750 --> 00:42:46,480
and then you know you re well i discuss

980
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:47,760
it in my book the

981
00:42:51,270 --> 00:42:50,160
the sculpture from pretty hanukkah the

982
00:43:06,550 --> 00:42:51,280
uh

983
00:43:10,150 --> 00:43:06,560
showing a a man wearing a mask

984
00:43:13,270 --> 00:43:10,160
that looks almost identical with that

985
00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:13,280
uh iconic image

986
00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:16,480
of the ufo alien that first appeared on

987
00:43:20,069 --> 00:43:17,440
the cover

988
00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:20,079
of streepers communion and that i think

989
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:22,160
made his book a best seller

990
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:26,000
so we're we seem to be dealing

991
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:29,599
with something that plugs

992
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:32,640
in to something very

993
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:36,640
archaic and deeply rooted in us

994
00:43:43,589 --> 00:43:40,000
now i think it takes on coloration from

995
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:43,599
some more recent more recent events

996
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:46,079
i think there's no question that betty

997
00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:49,280
and barney hill had a genuine experience

998
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:51,280
they weren't taken aboard a flying

999
00:43:55,150 --> 00:43:52,400
saucer

1000
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:55,160
but i think that barney was

1001
00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:56,560
re-experiencing

1002
00:44:01,829 --> 00:43:59,680
what had happened to his ancestors that

1003
00:44:02,790 --> 00:44:01,839
they were abducted in the middle of the

1004
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:02,800
night

1005
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:06,000
taken to an alien ship and they're

1006
00:44:12,309 --> 00:44:09,040
performed intrusive

1007
00:44:13,109 --> 00:44:12,319
physical examinations that is just what

1008
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:13,119
happened

1009
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:17,200
to thousands and thousands of africans

1010
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:20,800
in the 18th century and today we're

1011
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:21,280
still

1012
00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:24,000
living with the toxic effect of that

1013
00:44:29,109 --> 00:44:25,599
crime

1014
00:44:32,710 --> 00:44:29,119
and i think that the abduction tradition

1015
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:32,720
in addition to being something

1016
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:35,680
that goes back to prehistoric times some

1017
00:44:40,390 --> 00:44:37,200
experience

1018
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:40,400
that's deeply embedded in us also shows

1019
00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:41,520
the signs

1020
00:44:48,069 --> 00:44:45,040
of these historical experiences

1021
00:44:51,230 --> 00:44:48,079
so we're dealing with an extremely rich

1022
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:51,240
and i think mostly authentic

1023
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:56,470
it's interesting though to me it's very

1024
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:58,560
interesting your take on this because

1025
00:45:02,710 --> 00:45:00,720
i'm not saying you're talking about from

1026
00:45:04,870 --> 00:45:02,720
both sides but you're saying

1027
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:04,880
these people had a genuine experience

1028
00:45:07,829 --> 00:45:05,920
but it's not

1029
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:07,839
they didn't go on a flying salt it's not

1030
00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:09,359
what they said it is or maybe they

1031
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:11,200
misunderstood

1032
00:45:15,829 --> 00:45:14,560
you know much like much like you know i

1033
00:45:18,870 --> 00:45:15,839
talked to a friend who

1034
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:18,880
was in a cult for a while and uh he was

1035
00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:19,520
in a cult

1036
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:22,560
in in colorado california out there in

1037
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:23,520
new ageville

1038
00:45:28,710 --> 00:45:26,720
for a while run by a guru who he thought

1039
00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:28,720
was absolutely genuine

1040
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,960
and and talking to god and everything

1041
00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:32,640
and then he came to find out that that

1042
00:45:36,390 --> 00:45:33,680
guru

1043
00:45:38,710 --> 00:45:36,400
all of his experiences every one of them

1044
00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:38,720
came from hallucinogenic experiences in

1045
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:40,560
other words that guy would

1046
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:42,960
you know take magic mushrooms or smoke

1047
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:44,160
dmt

1048
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:46,400
and then write out his revelations for

1049
00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:48,319
his tribe of cult

1050
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:50,480
you know and he was tremendously let

1051
00:45:53,589 --> 00:45:51,760
down because

1052
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,599
although he thought that a lot of this

1053
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:55,599
guy's teachings were so helpful

1054
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:58,000
he felt left down because he thought how

1055
00:46:01,990 --> 00:45:59,119
does that guy

1056
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:02,000
interpret these experiences that are

1057
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:04,079
hallucinogenic in nature to be so

1058
00:46:07,349 --> 00:46:05,040
spiritual

1059
00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:07,359
he may be misinterpreting it so maybe

1060
00:46:10,950 --> 00:46:09,280
people are having these experiences and

1061
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:10,960
misinterpreting things as

1062
00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:14,800
aliens okay yeah i mean you saw me

1063
00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:15,440
probably

1064
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,880
nodding so hard that uh my ear yeah

1065
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:20,720
i'm glad we agree we can learn to agree

1066
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:22,560
and get some common ground then

1067
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:25,280
because i i can see that some people get

1068
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:27,200
a little confused because wait uh

1069
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:30,240
so this isn't real aliens aren't real

1070
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:31,680
but these people are still having a

1071
00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:33,440
genuine experience yeah

1072
00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:36,079
okay let's say the experiences are real

1073
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:37,839
the aliens are not

1074
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:40,319
and i think of that charming wonderful

1075
00:46:44,309 --> 00:46:42,000
librarian i met

1076
00:46:45,670 --> 00:46:44,319
about 10 years ago from western north

1077
00:46:48,230 --> 00:46:45,680
carolina

1078
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:48,240
a very lovely woman and she was telling

1079
00:46:52,309 --> 00:46:48,800
me

1080
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:52,319
about the ufo aliens she saw standing

1081
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:55,200
on her lawn as a child looking out

1082
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:56,400
through the window

1083
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:59,920
and she said i know they weren't really

1084
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:00,640
there

1085
00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:03,760
but i did see them

1086
00:47:08,230 --> 00:47:06,720
so and i believe both halves of that

1087
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:08,240
statement

1088
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:10,480
and that's what i'm trying to do as a

1089
00:47:15,910 --> 00:47:12,240
ufologist to try

1090
00:47:19,510 --> 00:47:15,920
to understand how they are both

1091
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:19,520
true the experiences are

1092
00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:22,720
real the entities experienced

1093
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:26,240
are not or at least they are not as the

1094
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:27,359
people

1095
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:33,599
i cannot see there's any way to deny

1096
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:33,920
that

1097
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:37,200
barney hill had an absolutely terrifying

1098
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:38,000
experience

1099
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:41,520
there may be some hoaxes involved in

1100
00:47:46,630 --> 00:47:44,960
ufo abductions but barney and betty hill

1101
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:46,640
were sure not among them

1102
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:51,200
and neither is whitley streamer uh

1103
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:53,280
and we can talk some more about some

1104
00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:54,880
other abductions

1105
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,710
you

1106
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:04,790
oh lord stephen i'm having a senior

1107
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:06,240
moment i lost

1108
00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:09,760
i i i have them myself it is quite a

1109
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,240
right

1110
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:12,640
you know what uh the one of the other

1111
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:14,240
questions is very important to me and

1112
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:15,599
it's a selfish question

1113
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:17,359
because i don't often get to talk to a

1114
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:19,680
biblical scholar and theology

1115
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:23,040
such an expert on theology uh you know

1116
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:26,160
uh i i want i want to ask you

1117
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:27,920
something that may be somewhat unrelated

1118
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:30,720
but i think still is and that is

1119
00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:33,760
you're you're jewish i'm christian

1120
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:35,440
the the christians and especially the

1121
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:37,920
catholics have literally made statements

1122
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:41,040
that if if there is the discovery of of

1123
00:48:44,309 --> 00:48:43,119
alien life out there in the universe it

1124
00:48:47,430 --> 00:48:44,319
wouldn't change anything

1125
00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:47,440
it would just be more glory of god

1126
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:49,680
and i've often looked at astronomy and

1127
00:48:54,630 --> 00:48:51,599
the vastness of the universe and maybe

1128
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:54,640
again this is wishful thinking but i go

1129
00:48:58,710 --> 00:48:57,119
i don't think that there's a possibility

1130
00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:58,720
that we could be alone in the universe

1131
00:49:02,150 --> 00:49:00,400
there has to be some other intelligent

1132
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,160
life out there somewhere

1133
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:04,880
in the vastness of the universe if we

1134
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:06,000
discovered

1135
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:08,160
in the next few years that there truly

1136
00:49:11,829 --> 00:49:09,440
is intelligent

1137
00:49:13,030 --> 00:49:11,839
conscious beings out there how would it

1138
00:49:17,270 --> 00:49:13,040
affect

1139
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:17,280
being christian or muslim

1140
00:49:20,950 --> 00:49:18,880
how do you think it would affect the

1141
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:20,960
religions of the world to find out that

1142
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:23,680
there are aliens and do you believe

1143
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:25,440
that there are other intelligence

1144
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:27,839
species out there in the universe

1145
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,319
uh oh the the the second part of your

1146
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,160
question i can answer easiest

1147
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:35,040
which is i don't know i simply don't

1148
00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:37,520
know if they're safe answer

1149
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:40,800
safe answer i have no idea uh as far as

1150
00:49:45,510 --> 00:49:43,040
judaism goes i can tell you

1151
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,520
that in the 18th century and i didn't

1152
00:49:48,470 --> 00:49:47,200
put this in intimate alien because i

1153
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:48,480
don't think it has any

1154
00:49:53,109 --> 00:49:51,520
relation to ufos but actually maybe it

1155
00:49:56,230 --> 00:49:53,119
does but we'll come back to that

1156
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,240
but that there was a a a

1157
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:58,480
a book written by a fellow named

1158
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:00,559
horowitz

1159
00:50:05,670 --> 00:50:03,520
which demonstrated on the basis of the

1160
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:05,680
bible and the talmud

1161
00:50:13,589 --> 00:50:09,920
that there is life on other planets

1162
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:13,599
and that they like us are subject to

1163
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:15,119
divine rule

1164
00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:18,000
but they don't unlike us they don't have

1165
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:18,640
uh

1166
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:21,920
a free will so that i don't

1167
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:25,280
think orthodox judaism would be too

1168
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:26,240
shattered

1169
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:29,440
by the discovery of extra terrestrial

1170
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:29,760
light

1171
00:50:32,790 --> 00:50:31,119
well you could always say we're the

1172
00:50:36,230 --> 00:50:32,800
chosen people they are

1173
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:36,240
right you got an out we're god's chosen

1174
00:50:38,950 --> 00:50:37,359
people they're not

1175
00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:38,960
so it doesn't really change anything

1176
00:50:43,349 --> 00:50:40,800
with us right yeah

1177
00:50:44,710 --> 00:50:43,359
yeah yeah but catholicism is interesting

1178
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,720
in that they have even

1179
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:46,800
observatories out there looking for

1180
00:50:49,589 --> 00:50:48,640
intelligent life and some people claim

1181
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:49,599
that there may be

1182
00:50:54,150 --> 00:50:51,839
alien bodies or things in the vatican

1183
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:54,160
vaults that we don't know about or they

1184
00:50:57,430 --> 00:50:55,359
have some knowledge

1185
00:50:59,109 --> 00:50:57,440
that's why they're being proactive in

1186
00:51:00,309 --> 00:50:59,119
making these statements because they

1187
00:51:02,230 --> 00:51:00,319
know something

1188
00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:02,240
about intelligent life out there that we

1189
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:04,400
don't do you believe that

1190
00:51:08,309 --> 00:51:07,119
no i don't believe that any governmental

1191
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:08,319
organization

1192
00:51:11,750 --> 00:51:10,720
has any secret knowledge about any of

1193
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:11,760
this

1194
00:51:17,349 --> 00:51:15,520
july you know in june we're supposed to

1195
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:17,359
get this huge report from the government

1196
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:19,280
people are claiming disclosures coming

1197
00:51:23,109 --> 00:51:21,200
in june they're finally going to tell us

1198
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:23,119
the truth about those bodies buried in

1199
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:24,240
the basement

1200
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:25,280
do you think that's going to be a

1201
00:51:28,470 --> 00:51:26,960
nothing burger or do you think that

1202
00:51:30,309 --> 00:51:28,480
there might be some

1203
00:51:32,230 --> 00:51:30,319
substantial information released

1204
00:51:34,069 --> 00:51:32,240
everybody's speculating right now about

1205
00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:34,079
that report coming out

1206
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:36,720
i absolutely do not believe they're

1207
00:51:42,309 --> 00:51:39,920
going to disclose the truth about ufos

1208
00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:42,319
i think there may be some interesting

1209
00:51:46,870 --> 00:51:44,400
sightings some interesting

1210
00:51:48,549 --> 00:51:46,880
visions i suppose i should say some

1211
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:48,559
interesting encounters

1212
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:50,800
that we hadn't known about so i'm not

1213
00:51:55,109 --> 00:51:53,440
sure i'd go so far as nothing burger

1214
00:51:59,510 --> 00:51:55,119
but i mean we've been waiting for

1215
00:52:02,950 --> 00:52:01,510
kick the can though if you make a living

1216
00:52:04,309 --> 00:52:02,960
out of this these guys have to keep

1217
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:04,319
kicking the can going

1218
00:52:07,430 --> 00:52:06,000
well disclosure didn't happen because we

1219
00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:07,440
didn't get the right president

1220
00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:09,280
but the next president is going to be

1221
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:11,119
you know it just kicked the can kick the

1222
00:52:15,589 --> 00:52:13,200
can the next big revelation

1223
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:15,599
and i've grown tired of waiting and i

1224
00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:17,599
and i and also you and i agree

1225
00:52:20,870 --> 00:52:19,520
i don't think that report maybe that

1226
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:20,880
you're right the report won't be a

1227
00:52:23,670 --> 00:52:22,079
nothing burger there'll be some

1228
00:52:25,990 --> 00:52:23,680
interesting information in there but it

1229
00:52:27,990 --> 00:52:26,000
won't be anything earth-shattering

1230
00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:28,000
and and i believe the government can't

1231
00:52:32,549 --> 00:52:30,079
tell us the truth about ufos

1232
00:52:33,510 --> 00:52:32,559
because they don't know the truth about

1233
00:52:36,950 --> 00:52:33,520
ufos

1234
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:36,960
in truth there's no you know yeah

1235
00:52:44,790 --> 00:52:43,270
yeah i think they may i think they may

1236
00:52:47,430 --> 00:52:44,800
know less than the public

1237
00:52:49,109 --> 00:52:47,440
knows at least the well-informed public

1238
00:52:51,270 --> 00:52:49,119
that are into these things

1239
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:51,280
they may be less informed because of

1240
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:52,319
their biases

1241
00:52:56,790 --> 00:52:54,960
and their you know especially military

1242
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:56,800
people military people think we've got

1243
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:58,559
the best weapons in the world

1244
00:53:02,549 --> 00:53:00,240
you know they don't want to believe that

1245
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:02,559
there may be a more advanced race out

1246
00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:03,440
there that could

1247
00:53:10,630 --> 00:53:07,040
destroy us in a millisecond you know

1248
00:53:12,630 --> 00:53:10,640
yeah and stephen maybe this old fellow

1249
00:53:14,950 --> 00:53:12,640
who has now recovered what he was going

1250
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:14,960
to say yeah go for it

1251
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:16,800
go for it yeah let's get back to that is

1252
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:19,680
when you talk about the psychedelic guru

1253
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:22,000
and i'm wondering if we can question the

1254
00:53:25,109 --> 00:53:23,200
assumption there

1255
00:53:26,549 --> 00:53:25,119
that if something is the result of

1256
00:53:29,829 --> 00:53:26,559
psychedelic drugs

1257
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:29,839
that makes it insignificant because

1258
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:33,440
if i believe that ufos are

1259
00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:36,880
something that come from inside us

1260
00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:39,200
bearers of meaning that are important

1261
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:40,640
for us

1262
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:43,839
then does it make is it really a crucial

1263
00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:44,720
issue

1264
00:53:49,030 --> 00:53:48,000
whether they came out with chemical

1265
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:49,040
assistance

1266
00:53:53,910 --> 00:53:52,240
or not sure

1267
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:53,920
yeah and some people believe that a lot

1268
00:53:57,349 --> 00:53:55,359
parts of religion may have been

1269
00:53:59,510 --> 00:53:57,359
influenced like the burning bush

1270
00:54:01,430 --> 00:53:59,520
it may have been it may have been some

1271
00:54:03,349 --> 00:54:01,440
something that uh you know

1272
00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:03,359
was ingested that created the

1273
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:06,559
hallucination of all of these things but

1274
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:08,640
talk about the impact of what trip can

1275
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:10,000
have on the on the

1276
00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:12,400
human race it could have founded whole

1277
00:54:17,829 --> 00:54:15,280
religions right and there's the uh

1278
00:54:19,589 --> 00:54:17,839
theory that that one of the reasons we

1279
00:54:21,670 --> 00:54:19,599
started getting so smart is because we

1280
00:54:24,309 --> 00:54:21,680
discovered psychedelic drugs

1281
00:54:25,750 --> 00:54:24,319
and that expanded our minds right not

1282
00:54:29,510 --> 00:54:25,760
because the drugs

1283
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:29,520
convey the information but because they

1284
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:33,040
loosen the inhibition sure for the

1285
00:54:36,789 --> 00:54:35,760
information to come out so that is why

1286
00:54:40,390 --> 00:54:36,799
you in my

1287
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:40,400
my chapter on john lennon and his ufo

1288
00:54:43,510 --> 00:54:42,079
experience yeah can you talk about i was

1289
00:54:45,510 --> 00:54:43,520
going to ask you about that because

1290
00:54:46,710 --> 00:54:45,520
yeah a lot of people know may have heard

1291
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:46,720
that john lennon was kind of

1292
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:48,960
into ufos i know he hung out with yuri

1293
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:50,400
geller once and

1294
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:53,119
and also i never knew that he left i i

1295
00:54:55,589 --> 00:54:55,119
i'm not a huge john lennon fan a little

1296
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:55,599
bit

1297
00:54:58,789 --> 00:54:57,200
but i never knew much about his personal

1298
00:54:59,270 --> 00:54:58,799
life and i never knew that he sort of

1299
00:55:02,470 --> 00:54:59,280
left

1300
00:55:04,230 --> 00:55:02,480
uh yoko for another asian girlfriend

1301
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:04,240
for a while and they had a ufo

1302
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:05,520
experience that you talk about in the

1303
00:55:09,910 --> 00:55:07,599
book can you talk about that

1304
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:09,920
yeah i mean i i don't think he left yoko

1305
00:55:15,030 --> 00:55:12,000
they were separated at the time

1306
00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:15,040
and yoko seems to have engineered

1307
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:18,400
his affair with mae pang neither john

1308
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:19,359
norman

1309
00:55:23,030 --> 00:55:21,839
seems to have particularly wanted to get

1310
00:55:24,870 --> 00:55:23,040
involved in it and

1311
00:55:26,390 --> 00:55:24,880
reading between the lines i think it

1312
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:26,400
sounds like they were absolutely

1313
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,750
yeah and yoko was kind of like i'm sick

1314
00:55:33,990 --> 00:55:33,359
of you hang out with yours this

1315
00:55:37,349 --> 00:55:34,000
assistant

1316
00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:37,359
made peng for a while

1317
00:55:41,349 --> 00:55:39,520
i'll be back yeah but while he was

1318
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,359
hanging out with me

1319
00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:43,680
he had an interesting experience and

1320
00:55:47,349 --> 00:55:44,960
yoko was phoning

1321
00:55:48,230 --> 00:55:47,359
about six times a day to find out what

1322
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:48,240
they were doing

1323
00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:49,760
i mean and he couldn't tell again it's

1324
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:51,920
bizarre

1325
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:54,960
yeah so but they they did have an uh uh

1326
00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:58,480
uh an evening in august 1974

1327
00:56:02,390 --> 00:56:00,960
as a situation where she had just come

1328
00:56:04,950 --> 00:56:02,400
out of the shower he was

1329
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:04,960
running around their penthouse apartment

1330
00:56:08,069 --> 00:56:05,599
naked

1331
00:56:09,270 --> 00:56:08,079
and he calls to her and says may may

1332
00:56:12,230 --> 00:56:09,280
come out

1333
00:56:14,470 --> 00:56:12,240
and they're out on a balcony on the

1334
00:56:17,829 --> 00:56:14,480
penthouse apartment and they see

1335
00:56:19,589 --> 00:56:17,839
a domed disc passing he thinks it's

1336
00:56:21,190 --> 00:56:19,599
close enough that if he had a brick he

1337
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:21,200
could have thrown the brick

1338
00:56:27,750 --> 00:56:25,040
and and hit it and they have a camera

1339
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:27,760
and they took a whole row of photos of

1340
00:56:30,789 --> 00:56:28,799
this thing

1341
00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:30,799
uh which one developed all turned out to

1342
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:32,240
be blank

1343
00:56:36,069 --> 00:56:33,839
so i would take that as proof where

1344
00:56:38,150 --> 00:56:36,079
there was nothing physically there

1345
00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:38,160
which could support the the your

1346
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:39,760
assertion that some of this could be

1347
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:42,319
psychically projected right right now

1348
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:44,160
what exactly is being psychically

1349
00:56:48,069 --> 00:56:44,880
projected

1350
00:56:51,190 --> 00:56:48,079
well what struck me about their story is

1351
00:56:53,510 --> 00:56:51,200
that most of the time not it not always

1352
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:53,520
but in most of the retellings of the

1353
00:56:57,750 --> 00:56:54,400
story

1354
00:56:59,829 --> 00:56:57,760
they stress that they were naked

1355
00:57:01,430 --> 00:56:59,839
yeah you harped on that in the book and

1356
00:57:03,030 --> 00:57:01,440
i was like what does that have to what

1357
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:03,040
is that what does them happen to be

1358
00:57:05,750 --> 00:57:03,760
naked

1359
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:05,760
can you explain to us what them having

1360
00:57:10,630 --> 00:57:08,079
to be naked has to do with it

1361
00:57:11,990 --> 00:57:10,640
was the when was the last time a naked

1362
00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:12,000
human couple

1363
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:15,520
garden of eden yeah yeah so i think that

1364
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:16,720
what we've got there

1365
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:19,520
and i'm going to use jung's terminology

1366
00:57:27,190 --> 00:57:23,280
is an archetypal scene

1367
00:57:30,549 --> 00:57:27,200
which was dominant dominated the mind

1368
00:57:33,430 --> 00:57:30,559
of whoever the myth maker who wrote that

1369
00:57:37,430 --> 00:57:33,440
story in the third chapter of genesis

1370
00:57:38,309 --> 00:57:37,440
and emerged spontaneously in the psyches

1371
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:38,319
of people

1372
00:57:42,549 --> 00:57:41,760
at least one of whom had said oh there's

1373
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:42,559
nothing we

1374
00:57:47,829 --> 00:57:44,960
remember the song imagine imagine

1375
00:57:51,270 --> 00:57:47,839
there's no heaven it's easy if you try

1376
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:51,280
no hell beneath us above us only sky

1377
00:57:59,990 --> 00:57:55,920
as if the sky is totally disenchanted

1378
00:58:04,150 --> 00:58:00,000
well the sky announces to john lynn and

1379
00:58:07,670 --> 00:58:04,160
you can't disenchant me so easily buddy

1380
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:07,680
yeah where did this come from

1381
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:11,760
now with lennon on drugs he claims he

1382
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:13,359
wasn't that night

1383
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:16,880
and i'm inclined to believe him but

1384
00:58:21,990 --> 00:58:19,680
it wouldn't bother me if he were because

1385
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:22,000
i would see the dynamic

1386
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:26,640
operating as being exactly the same

1387
00:58:33,270 --> 00:58:30,000
whether he was on drugs or not how this

1388
00:58:35,430 --> 00:58:33,280
happens when we're not on drugs i don't

1389
00:58:39,589 --> 00:58:35,440
think we fully understand

1390
00:58:42,630 --> 00:58:39,599
and it's one of the many mysteries

1391
00:58:44,150 --> 00:58:42,640
that i think is unsolved if i will tell

1392
00:58:45,670 --> 00:58:44,160
you by the way what i think is the

1393
00:58:48,630 --> 00:58:45,680
biggest mystery

1394
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,640
which is the miracle of the sun and

1395
00:58:53,910 --> 00:58:50,640
october 1917

1396
00:58:57,109 --> 00:58:53,920
in fatima portugal where

1397
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:57,119
some a crowd of something like 70 000

1398
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,319
sees the sun fall to earth

1399
00:59:03,349 --> 00:59:02,640
now you and i know the sun cannot fall

1400
00:59:05,349 --> 00:59:03,359
to earth

1401
00:59:06,549 --> 00:59:05,359
and yet they all see it doing it that

1402
00:59:08,390 --> 00:59:06,559
was the perception

1403
00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:08,400
of a great many people that were there

1404
00:59:12,470 --> 00:59:10,480
and there was hundreds of people

1405
00:59:14,150 --> 00:59:12,480
we're doing a series on uh christian

1406
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:14,160
mysteries and that's included

1407
00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:15,920
you've done a lot of work and research

1408
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:18,319
on fatima and fatima mysteries

1409
00:59:21,750 --> 00:59:21,280
fascinating what those people saw well

1410
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:21,760
what

1411
00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:26,240
krypal by the way has written about this

1412
00:59:32,630 --> 00:59:29,440
very persuasively that initially

1413
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:32,640
when the kids at fatima this was

1414
00:59:37,109 --> 00:59:35,359
months before the miracle of the sun

1415
00:59:40,630 --> 00:59:37,119
when they had their vision

1416
00:59:44,069 --> 00:59:40,640
of the pretty lady who made them

1417
00:59:46,150 --> 00:59:44,079
emissaries they didn't say it was the

1418
00:59:48,789 --> 00:59:46,160
virgin mary

1419
00:59:50,710 --> 00:59:48,799
they just said it was a pretty lady yeah

1420
00:59:53,109 --> 00:59:50,720
so maybe through the cultural lens and

1421
00:59:54,789 --> 00:59:53,119
the religious lens a pretty lady becomes

1422
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:54,799
the blessed mother

1423
00:59:59,990 --> 00:59:59,280
yeah yeah so that we're dealing with

1424
01:00:03,390 --> 01:00:00,000
something that

1425
01:00:05,270 --> 01:00:03,400
emerges spontaneously and then is

1426
01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:05,280
conventionalized

1427
01:00:09,109 --> 01:00:08,000
into the virgin mary and then i can see

1428
01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:09,119
some

1429
01:00:14,470 --> 01:00:12,160
ancient alien theorists saying

1430
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:14,480
oh well it was a space woman which is

1431
01:00:19,349 --> 01:00:17,280
another conventionalization

1432
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:19,359
yeah there's all these different lenses

1433
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:21,280
that people can see these experiences

1434
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:22,079
through

1435
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:24,960
you know i think it's interesting like

1436
01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:26,400
things like cargo cults

1437
01:00:30,549 --> 01:00:28,640
are interesting to me because somehow

1438
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:30,559
airplanes become gods through

1439
01:00:33,589 --> 01:00:33,119
certain cultural lenses you know all

1440
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:33,599
they knew

1441
01:00:37,750 --> 01:00:35,680
is that there was these these things in

1442
01:00:39,270 --> 01:00:37,760
the sky that dropped food

1443
01:00:41,430 --> 01:00:39,280
and they wanted them to come back so

1444
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:41,440
they created all you know they created

1445
01:00:45,270 --> 01:00:42,400
these

1446
01:00:46,870 --> 01:00:45,280
bamboo you know airplanes and they

1447
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:46,880
worshipped them and prayed for their

1448
01:00:50,870 --> 01:00:47,680
return

1449
01:00:53,190 --> 01:00:50,880
you know and then in papua new guinea

1450
01:00:54,630 --> 01:00:53,200
an anglican priest with his papuan

1451
01:00:58,069 --> 01:00:54,640
congregation

1452
01:01:01,030 --> 01:00:58,079
sees human beings who look exact

1453
01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:01,040
flying discs piloted by beings who look

1454
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:03,119
exactly like human men

1455
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:08,870
yeah and i think there we're dealing

1456
01:01:11,829 --> 01:01:09,680
with

1457
01:01:14,390 --> 01:01:11,839
something i won't say it's an offshoot

1458
01:01:16,309 --> 01:01:14,400
of the cargo cults but something related

1459
01:01:20,150 --> 01:01:16,319
to the cargo cults

1460
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:20,160
a traditional belief in sky gods that

1461
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:21,520
communicate

1462
01:01:29,670 --> 01:01:24,960
with human beings merged

1463
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:29,680
with the modern myth of the ufo

1464
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:32,960
and turned into vision

1465
01:01:42,230 --> 01:01:36,240
which everybody seems

1466
01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:42,240
and exactly how they all see similar

1467
01:01:46,789 --> 01:01:43,280
things

1468
01:01:49,030 --> 01:01:46,799
well

1469
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:49,040
you know i i have so many more questions

1470
01:01:51,430 --> 01:01:50,160
but i know we're running short of time

1471
01:01:51,990 --> 01:01:51,440
and i want to leave some time if you

1472
01:01:53,750 --> 01:01:52,000
don't mind for

1473
01:01:55,510 --> 01:01:53,760
questions from the live chat we have a

1474
01:01:56,230 --> 01:01:55,520
lot of people here that would probably

1475
01:01:58,630 --> 01:01:56,240
would like

1476
01:01:59,829 --> 01:01:58,640
so if anybody has any questions for

1477
01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:59,839
david please put them in

1478
01:02:04,789 --> 01:02:02,240
all capital letters but in the meantime

1479
01:02:06,309 --> 01:02:04,799
i heard in another interview

1480
01:02:08,069 --> 01:02:06,319
somebody asked you how long you've been

1481
01:02:10,150 --> 01:02:08,079
writing this book and by the way we want

1482
01:02:13,029 --> 01:02:10,160
to make sure we plug it again

1483
01:02:14,390 --> 01:02:13,039
it's the intimate alien the hidden story

1484
01:02:17,589 --> 01:02:14,400
of the ufo

1485
01:02:18,950 --> 01:02:17,599
david j halpern uh and and i laughed

1486
01:02:20,069 --> 01:02:18,960
because somebody asked you how long

1487
01:02:23,190 --> 01:02:20,079
you've been writing this book

1488
01:02:24,789 --> 01:02:23,200
and you said my entire life so

1489
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:24,799
you've been looking into the ufo

1490
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:26,880
phenomenon and i mentioned that i myself

1491
01:02:29,829 --> 01:02:28,000
have just sort of reached an

1492
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:29,839
impasse with the nuts and bolts and

1493
01:02:32,950 --> 01:02:31,359
lately i've gotten more into the

1494
01:02:35,190 --> 01:02:32,960
consciousness side

1495
01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:35,200
and uh and some of what you're talking

1496
01:02:38,710 --> 01:02:36,880
about and writing about fits right in

1497
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:38,720
with what i've been getting into

1498
01:02:42,549 --> 01:02:40,720
so your entire life you've been looking

1499
01:02:45,270 --> 01:02:42,559
into this phenomenon

1500
01:02:46,390 --> 01:02:45,280
and you've come to these conclusions is

1501
01:02:48,549 --> 01:02:46,400
this book

1502
01:02:50,710 --> 01:02:48,559
your conclusions after decades of

1503
01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:50,720
studying the phenomenon

1504
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:53,200
yeah after i would even i would even say

1505
01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:54,240
after decades of

1506
01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:57,680
living the phenomenon

1507
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:59,680
you were all chips in on this thing for

1508
01:03:04,309 --> 01:03:01,280
many years right yeah

1509
01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:04,319
yeah i i i i kind of can relate reading

1510
01:03:07,990 --> 01:03:06,319
every book watching every documentary

1511
01:03:10,549 --> 01:03:08,000
reading news stories

1512
01:03:12,470 --> 01:03:10,559
trying to get to the truth of this thing

1513
01:03:13,029 --> 01:03:12,480
and it's interesting to me that so many

1514
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:13,039
people

1515
01:03:16,150 --> 01:03:14,960
after the nuts and bolts and physical

1516
01:03:18,309 --> 01:03:16,160
side of it may be

1517
01:03:19,510 --> 01:03:18,319
absolutely and totally wrong and the

1518
01:03:21,349 --> 01:03:19,520
psychic projection

1519
01:03:23,510 --> 01:03:21,359
that you're talking about could explain

1520
01:03:25,109 --> 01:03:23,520
so many of these sightings where

1521
01:03:26,950 --> 01:03:25,119
there doesn't appear to be physical

1522
01:03:29,870 --> 01:03:26,960
craft it's lights in the sky

1523
01:03:31,029 --> 01:03:29,880
it's plasma balls it's different

1524
01:03:34,309 --> 01:03:31,039
manifestations

1525
01:03:36,230 --> 01:03:34,319
that aren't entirely physical

1526
01:03:38,230 --> 01:03:36,240
maybe interdimensional for all we know

1527
01:03:41,270 --> 01:03:38,240
but psychic projection

1528
01:03:44,470 --> 01:03:41,280
seems to be as good an explanation as

1529
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:44,480
aliens from outer space

1530
01:03:51,390 --> 01:03:48,000
i think it has the advantage

1531
01:03:55,109 --> 01:03:51,400
that it leads us to an

1532
01:04:00,630 --> 01:03:55,119
understanding in the way that's opposing

1533
01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:02,470
okay so we have a question from the live

1534
01:04:06,069 --> 01:04:04,640
chat i'm not sure what he's referring to

1535
01:04:08,950 --> 01:04:06,079
here maybe you know what are his

1536
01:04:10,870 --> 01:04:08,960
thoughts on the babylon working

1537
01:04:12,710 --> 01:04:10,880
i don't know i don't know what it is

1538
01:04:15,829 --> 01:04:12,720
myself i wonder if he could

1539
01:04:16,630 --> 01:04:15,839
yeah just can he clarify that lee uh be

1540
01:04:20,150 --> 01:04:16,640
a little bit

1541
01:04:21,990 --> 01:04:20,160
there yeah yeah so

1542
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:22,000
is is there going to be is there going

1543
01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:23,839
to be a second edition

1544
01:04:29,109 --> 01:04:26,880
or a sequel to this book are you gonna

1545
01:04:29,910 --> 01:04:29,119
expel because i i you know the one thing

1546
01:04:31,589 --> 01:04:29,920
i will say

1547
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:31,599
is that when i finished i was almost

1548
01:04:34,870 --> 01:04:33,839
disappointed like i felt like i needed

1549
01:04:38,230 --> 01:04:34,880
more

1550
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:38,240
a lot of what you said

1551
01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:40,319
that may be like i said as good an

1552
01:04:44,150 --> 01:04:42,640
explanation as physical craft and aliens

1553
01:04:45,670 --> 01:04:44,160
from outer space

1554
01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:45,680
but are you gonna are you gonna make

1555
01:04:51,670 --> 01:04:48,000
another book

1556
01:04:54,950 --> 01:04:51,680
i have no plans for it but i do blog

1557
01:04:58,789 --> 01:04:54,960
mostly on ufos every two weeks

1558
01:05:00,470 --> 01:04:58,799
at uh davidhalperin.net

1559
01:05:01,829 --> 01:05:00,480
yeah and i'll put that i'll put that up

1560
01:05:04,230 --> 01:05:01,839
on the screen too and and

1561
01:05:06,069 --> 01:05:04,240
also i want to make sure uh i saw that

1562
01:05:06,950 --> 01:05:06,079
your book is on amazon is that the best

1563
01:05:09,910 --> 01:05:06,960
place to get it

1564
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:09,920
this latest book well it depends on what

1565
01:05:14,069 --> 01:05:11,839
you want if you want the hardcover

1566
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:14,079
i'd get it from stanford university

1567
01:05:19,829 --> 01:05:15,760
press directly

1568
01:05:22,870 --> 01:05:19,839
uh just just google stanford

1569
01:05:25,430 --> 01:05:22,880
university press david halperin but

1570
01:05:26,390 --> 01:05:25,440
yeah if you want to get an audio book or

1571
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:26,400
uh

1572
01:05:32,150 --> 01:05:29,760
or or an ebook yeah i think amazon is

1573
01:05:33,829 --> 01:05:32,160
the best place to go

1574
01:05:35,750 --> 01:05:33,839
yeah and i want to thank you for sending

1575
01:05:36,309 --> 01:05:35,760
me the book too mine got a little beat

1576
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:36,319
up

1577
01:05:39,829 --> 01:05:38,160
again it's intimate alien the hidden

1578
01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:39,839
story of the ufo i've been carrying it

1579
01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:41,599
back and forth between the cabin and the

1580
01:05:44,069 --> 01:05:42,160
kind of

1581
01:05:46,150 --> 01:05:44,079
i got upset i got to clean up the cover

1582
01:05:47,190 --> 01:05:46,160
and then i got a nice place on my shelf

1583
01:05:49,510 --> 01:05:47,200
to put this

1584
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:49,520
and and i put it i put things in like uh

1585
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:50,880
the order i got them

1586
01:05:54,230 --> 01:05:53,280
on my bookshelves right so this is going

1587
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:54,240
near the end

1588
01:05:57,589 --> 01:05:56,880
like after all this stuff this might be

1589
01:05:59,990 --> 01:05:57,599
the truth

1590
01:06:00,950 --> 01:06:00,000
it's psychic projections it's not it you

1591
01:06:03,990 --> 01:06:00,960
know

1592
01:06:05,829 --> 01:06:04,000
and uh but but i i'm so happy to find

1593
01:06:07,990 --> 01:06:05,839
somebody with your knowledge and

1594
01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:08,000
experience and expertise especially in

1595
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:08,960
theology

1596
01:06:12,230 --> 01:06:10,799
hey can i ask you another quick selfish

1597
01:06:13,589 --> 01:06:12,240
question because you may or may not be

1598
01:06:15,910 --> 01:06:13,599
familiar with this

1599
01:06:19,029 --> 01:06:15,920
are you very familiar with anything to

1600
01:06:22,950 --> 01:06:21,510
archaeology biblical archaeology because

1601
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,960
i recently found something i'm

1602
01:06:27,510 --> 01:06:24,640
researching called the

1603
01:06:29,589 --> 01:06:27,520
gabriel inscription it was a stone that

1604
01:06:32,870 --> 01:06:29,599
was found

1605
01:06:35,349 --> 01:06:32,880
in in israel and it mentions

1606
01:06:36,870 --> 01:06:35,359
this is what's crazy uh but you're a

1607
01:06:38,309 --> 01:06:36,880
biblical scholar so again this is a

1608
01:06:39,829 --> 01:06:38,319
selfish question just something that i'm

1609
01:06:40,710 --> 01:06:39,839
working on and interested in i want to

1610
01:06:43,670 --> 01:06:40,720
ask your

1611
01:06:45,349 --> 01:06:43,680
opinion on it the gabriel stone is a

1612
01:06:47,670 --> 01:06:45,359
stone that was found

1613
01:06:49,029 --> 01:06:47,680
and unlike it's not inscribed it was

1614
01:06:52,470 --> 01:06:49,039
painted on

1615
01:06:53,510 --> 01:06:52,480
and it tells the story of a man who was

1616
01:06:59,109 --> 01:06:53,520
killed

1617
01:07:00,069 --> 01:06:59,119
and after three days he rose from the

1618
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:00,079
dead

1619
01:07:06,470 --> 01:07:03,280
but it's not jesus it's another

1620
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:06,480
messianic figure that was shortly

1621
01:07:12,710 --> 01:07:10,240
before jesus called simon and then

1622
01:07:15,190 --> 01:07:12,720
the inscription also mentions another

1623
01:07:16,309 --> 01:07:15,200
messiah who is the suffering messiah son

1624
01:07:20,069 --> 01:07:16,319
of joseph

1625
01:07:23,990 --> 01:07:20,079
so some people are claiming that this

1626
01:07:26,789 --> 01:07:24,000
pre-jesus messianic figure uh

1627
01:07:28,950 --> 01:07:26,799
predated and perhaps even inspired the

1628
01:07:30,789 --> 01:07:28,960
story of jesus do you know about this

1629
01:07:33,349 --> 01:07:30,799
and what do you think about it okay

1630
01:07:36,390 --> 01:07:33,359
let's divide the question into two parts

1631
01:07:36,950 --> 01:07:36,400
i'm sorry big question the gabriel's the

1632
01:07:40,710 --> 01:07:36,960
stone

1633
01:07:43,589 --> 01:07:40,720
i've never heard of and somehow i think

1634
01:07:44,789 --> 01:07:43,599
that it would have made the news media

1635
01:07:47,029 --> 01:07:44,799
all over the place

1636
01:07:48,630 --> 01:07:47,039
i mean because that would be such an

1637
01:07:50,470 --> 01:07:48,640
earth shattering

1638
01:07:52,470 --> 01:07:50,480
you would think right yeah i think it

1639
01:07:54,549 --> 01:07:52,480
was an archaeology news or biblical

1640
01:07:56,710 --> 01:07:54,559
archaeology news or something like that

1641
01:07:58,309 --> 01:07:56,720
but there's some debate because it's in

1642
01:08:00,789 --> 01:07:58,319
the hands of a private collector who

1643
01:08:03,829 --> 01:08:00,799
will not allow it to be

1644
01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:03,839
uh forensically tested which

1645
01:08:08,230 --> 01:08:06,640
may mean that it's not it's yeah so i'm

1646
01:08:09,990 --> 01:08:08,240
still researching this

1647
01:08:12,549 --> 01:08:10,000
because yeah it could it could be

1648
01:08:14,390 --> 01:08:12,559
earth-shattering to all of christendom

1649
01:08:16,149 --> 01:08:14,400
to find out that there was a guy right

1650
01:08:18,630 --> 01:08:16,159
before jesus

1651
01:08:20,470 --> 01:08:18,640
you know and again you talk about all

1652
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:20,480
this stuff about mythology and how we

1653
01:08:23,430 --> 01:08:21,120
need it

1654
01:08:24,309 --> 01:08:23,440
right there's a basic there's a basic

1655
01:08:28,070 --> 01:08:24,319
need right

1656
01:08:30,149 --> 01:08:28,080
and maybe one myth starts a new myth

1657
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:30,159
or people take the old myth and they

1658
01:08:35,510 --> 01:08:32,319
recast it in their own

1659
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:35,520
in their own way yeah now the messiah

1660
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:37,440
descended from joseph

1661
01:08:44,309 --> 01:08:40,960
is genuine okay but

1662
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:44,319
the the it's a it's a jewish belief

1663
01:08:49,189 --> 01:08:47,440
that the real messiah the messiah

1664
01:08:53,590 --> 01:08:49,199
descended from david

1665
01:08:55,669 --> 01:08:53,600
will have a forerunner who is martyred

1666
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:55,679
and to him applies the verse in

1667
01:08:59,910 --> 01:08:57,040
zechariah

1668
01:09:01,189 --> 01:08:59,920
they shall look upon him whom they have

1669
01:09:05,269 --> 01:09:01,199
pierced

1670
01:09:08,470 --> 01:09:05,279
okay which sounds very christian but

1671
01:09:10,870 --> 01:09:08,480
the stories about messiah ben joseph

1672
01:09:14,709 --> 01:09:10,880
messiah son of joseph

1673
01:09:17,349 --> 01:09:14,719
are all from sources that are later than

1674
01:09:20,789 --> 01:09:17,359
the beginning of christianity

1675
01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:20,799
so i to me there is very little doubt

1676
01:09:25,269 --> 01:09:23,920
that christian influence is operating

1677
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:25,279
here

1678
01:09:29,990 --> 01:09:28,159
the live chat this is a very good

1679
01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:30,000
question what are his views on the

1680
01:09:38,630 --> 01:09:34,960
essence essenes and gnostics or both

1681
01:09:43,669 --> 01:09:38,640
i know that's okay

1682
01:09:46,709 --> 01:09:43,679
uh the essenes

1683
01:09:48,309 --> 01:09:46,719
assuming that the dead sea scrolls were

1684
01:09:53,829 --> 01:09:48,319
written by them

1685
01:10:00,830 --> 01:09:57,030
i would say that they were

1686
01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:00,840
a ascetic

1687
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:04,960
sect of second temple times the times of

1688
01:10:11,510 --> 01:10:08,400
the times when the gospels were written

1689
01:10:13,430 --> 01:10:11,520
i personally do not find them very

1690
01:10:17,350 --> 01:10:13,440
interesting

1691
01:10:20,470 --> 01:10:17,360
they were breakaways from the

1692
01:10:23,830 --> 01:10:20,480
worship at the jerusalem temple they

1693
01:10:27,510 --> 01:10:23,840
had the idea that they were going

1694
01:10:32,229 --> 01:10:27,520
to preserve the true judaism

1695
01:10:33,669 --> 01:10:32,239
in the desert the gnostics i find a lot

1696
01:10:37,110 --> 01:10:33,679
more interesting

1697
01:10:40,709 --> 01:10:37,120
in that they i think

1698
01:10:44,470 --> 01:10:40,719
are primarily people who were

1699
01:10:47,990 --> 01:10:44,480
trying to give a

1700
01:10:51,189 --> 01:10:48,000
new take on who

1701
01:10:54,310 --> 01:10:51,199
jesus was and what jesus

1702
01:10:57,750 --> 01:10:54,320
meant for humanity and

1703
01:11:02,390 --> 01:10:57,760
often i think their teachings are very

1704
01:11:07,030 --> 01:11:04,630
and i think that's about as much as i

1705
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:07,040
can say

1706
01:11:10,229 --> 01:11:09,600
and what about the gnostics that's what

1707
01:11:13,990 --> 01:11:10,239
i mean

1708
01:11:16,630 --> 01:11:14,000
oh yeah yeah yeah interesting

1709
01:11:17,350 --> 01:11:16,640
interesting stuff and it's amazing to me

1710
01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:17,360
that's

1711
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:20,159
you know uh i don't know i grew up

1712
01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:21,280
catholic so

1713
01:11:25,350 --> 01:11:23,520
if you ask a priest about ufos or aliens

1714
01:11:27,270 --> 01:11:25,360
they're very dismissive so i found it

1715
01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:27,280
interesting that as educated you are

1716
01:11:32,550 --> 01:11:30,480
in religion you're not so dismissive

1717
01:11:34,070 --> 01:11:32,560
you know and it's and and that that's

1718
01:11:36,070 --> 01:11:34,080
refreshing that somebody that's so

1719
01:11:37,430 --> 01:11:36,080
educated about religion and theology has

1720
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:37,440
an open mind

1721
01:11:42,149 --> 01:11:40,320
because the priests that i grew up with

1722
01:11:43,350 --> 01:11:42,159
don't talk about that nonsense in here

1723
01:11:46,070 --> 01:11:43,360
you know

1724
01:11:48,550 --> 01:11:46,080
yeah well i had the advantage as i said

1725
01:11:51,350 --> 01:11:48,560
of being a ufologist before i was a

1726
01:11:53,910 --> 01:11:51,360
religion scholar

1727
01:11:55,750 --> 01:11:53,920
i started out with the ufos and i told

1728
01:11:57,270 --> 01:11:55,760
you i started when i was 12

1729
01:11:59,669 --> 01:11:57,280
but if i think about it it goes back

1730
01:12:02,630 --> 01:11:59,679
even farther when i was five

1731
01:12:04,229 --> 01:12:02,640
and i used to read the bible and i

1732
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:04,239
remember going to my mother

1733
01:12:08,229 --> 01:12:07,120
almost in tears saying mom i read this

1734
01:12:11,350 --> 01:12:08,239
scary thing

1735
01:12:13,830 --> 01:12:11,360
in the bible about a great wind coming

1736
01:12:15,750 --> 01:12:13,840
out of the north

1737
01:12:16,950 --> 01:12:15,760
and that of course is the vision of

1738
01:12:20,229 --> 01:12:16,960
ezekiel

1739
01:12:24,709 --> 01:12:20,239
so i think i go i i go back

1740
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:24,719
even before age 12. i've been doing ufos

1741
01:12:30,950 --> 01:12:28,320
for close to 70 years now

1742
01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:30,960
wow that's that's a long long time see

1743
01:12:33,189 --> 01:12:32,320
you don't look that old you look great

1744
01:12:34,950 --> 01:12:33,199
god bless you

1745
01:12:38,470 --> 01:12:34,960
you look great for your age then god

1746
01:12:40,390 --> 01:12:38,480
bless you i hope i look that good

1747
01:12:42,470 --> 01:12:40,400
yeah last time i went shopping and i was

1748
01:12:43,830 --> 01:12:42,480
offered a senior discount i said do i

1749
01:12:47,030 --> 01:12:43,840
have to show my id

1750
01:12:48,870 --> 01:12:47,040
card hey you should get

1751
01:12:50,470 --> 01:12:48,880
i believe after working your whole life

1752
01:12:51,189 --> 01:12:50,480
you should get something the least of

1753
01:12:53,110 --> 01:12:51,199
which should be

1754
01:12:56,229 --> 01:12:53,120
some kind of senior discount it should

1755
01:12:58,550 --> 01:12:56,239
be free movie night for you old guys

1756
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:58,560
you earned it right free dinner night

1757
01:13:01,110 --> 01:13:00,239
someplace right that would be great they

1758
01:13:05,110 --> 01:13:01,120
could label it

1759
01:13:08,310 --> 01:13:05,120
old guys movie night

1760
01:13:10,630 --> 01:13:08,320
yeah so uh it's interesting to me also

1761
01:13:11,510 --> 01:13:10,640
uh oh here we go here's a good question

1762
01:13:13,070 --> 01:13:11,520
david are you

1763
01:13:14,870 --> 01:13:13,080
interested in meeting an

1764
01:13:18,149 --> 01:13:14,880
extraterrestrial

1765
01:13:21,189 --> 01:13:18,159
why not yeah i think i would be too

1766
01:13:23,990 --> 01:13:21,199
absolutely absolutely would be

1767
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:24,000
you don't think that uh that you know

1768
01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:25,920
how there's this belief that

1769
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:28,239
that that the government's covering up

1770
01:13:31,110 --> 01:13:30,400
ufos because there'd be a worldwide

1771
01:13:33,189 --> 01:13:31,120
panic

1772
01:13:35,750 --> 01:13:33,199
don't you think we're ready for it if if

1773
01:13:36,630 --> 01:13:35,760
we did find out in june that aliens are

1774
01:13:38,950 --> 01:13:36,640
real

1775
01:13:40,070 --> 01:13:38,960
do you think that everybody would just

1776
01:13:41,910 --> 01:13:40,080
freak out or

1777
01:13:43,830 --> 01:13:41,920
would people just go on with their lives

1778
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:43,840
and go okay there's aliens out there

1779
01:13:47,430 --> 01:13:44,880
somewhere

1780
01:13:48,790 --> 01:13:47,440
i doubt it i mean the usual argument for

1781
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:48,800
why

1782
01:13:54,070 --> 01:13:50,640
they think people would freak out was

1783
01:13:54,950 --> 01:13:54,080
the you know the famous business in 1938

1784
01:13:58,070 --> 01:13:54,960
with the

1785
01:14:00,709 --> 01:13:58,080
war of the worlds radio broadcast

1786
01:14:01,669 --> 01:14:00,719
but i mean people didn't freeze best

1787
01:14:07,990 --> 01:14:01,679
prank ever

1788
01:14:10,070 --> 01:14:08,000
yeah yeah i mean the one

1789
01:14:11,669 --> 01:14:10,080
reason why people freaked out is that

1790
01:14:13,669 --> 01:14:11,679
the martians the first thing they did

1791
01:14:16,310 --> 01:14:13,679
when they got out of their cylinder

1792
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:16,320
was to start incinerating new jersey and

1793
01:14:20,709 --> 01:14:18,800
nobody could stop them

1794
01:14:22,550 --> 01:14:20,719
yeah and people were out there with

1795
01:14:24,229 --> 01:14:22,560
shotguns shooting at water towers

1796
01:14:27,110 --> 01:14:24,239
thinking they were flying saucers

1797
01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:27,120
it was crazy people people went nuts

1798
01:14:29,189 --> 01:14:27,520
people

1799
01:14:31,350 --> 01:14:29,199
loaded up their cars and headed for the

1800
01:14:34,709 --> 01:14:31,360
hills they didn't realize that it was

1801
01:14:36,550 --> 01:14:34,719
it was a goof it was a goof right

1802
01:14:38,470 --> 01:14:36,560
and uh one other one other question i

1803
01:14:39,189 --> 01:14:38,480
wanted to ask you and i see this all the

1804
01:14:41,189 --> 01:14:39,199
time

1805
01:14:42,950 --> 01:14:41,199
on ancient aliens and everybody that

1806
01:14:44,229 --> 01:14:42,960
talks about ancient aliens and things

1807
01:14:46,870 --> 01:14:44,239
like that

1808
01:14:48,149 --> 01:14:46,880
there truly are though there are a lot

1809
01:14:51,510 --> 01:14:48,159
of religious

1810
01:14:52,550 --> 01:14:51,520
uh paintings that depict what most

1811
01:14:56,070 --> 01:14:52,560
people would say

1812
01:14:57,669 --> 01:14:56,080
are flying saucers why do you think that

1813
01:15:00,229 --> 01:14:57,679
there is some mix

1814
01:15:01,189 --> 01:15:00,239
is there some mix between religion and

1815
01:15:05,030 --> 01:15:01,199
ufos

1816
01:15:07,430 --> 01:15:05,040
and why are there paintings that are

1817
01:15:09,910 --> 01:15:07,440
a thousand years old that have

1818
01:15:11,590 --> 01:15:09,920
depictions of ufos with like the blessed

1819
01:15:14,630 --> 01:15:11,600
mary or with jesus

1820
01:15:16,470 --> 01:15:14,640
on the cross there's well if jung and

1821
01:15:18,870 --> 01:15:16,480
valley are right it makes good

1822
01:15:19,590 --> 01:15:18,880
sense that that sort of thing should

1823
01:15:22,950 --> 01:15:19,600
crop up

1824
01:15:24,149 --> 01:15:22,960
in religious context i know there is a

1825
01:15:27,590 --> 01:15:24,159
painting it's called

1826
01:15:31,110 --> 01:15:27,600
i think la madona del ufo no the

1827
01:15:34,149 --> 01:15:31,120
the ufo madonna and

1828
01:15:37,669 --> 01:15:34,159
jeff krypal has worked with that and

1829
01:15:38,709 --> 01:15:37,679
he says okay yeah we're not dealing with

1830
01:15:41,830 --> 01:15:38,719
a spaceship

1831
01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:41,840
no but we are dealing with

1832
01:15:48,229 --> 01:15:45,280
something that coming from the

1833
01:15:49,750 --> 01:15:48,239
human imagination the human religious

1834
01:15:53,590 --> 01:15:49,760
perception

1835
01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:53,600
takes a ufo form and there is a

1836
01:15:57,910 --> 01:15:55,920
significance in that

1837
01:15:59,830 --> 01:15:57,920
yeah and i guess the other thing i would

1838
01:16:02,390 --> 01:15:59,840
i would like to ask you being

1839
01:16:03,590 --> 01:16:02,400
such a you know educated man on religion

1840
01:16:06,870 --> 01:16:03,600
and theology

1841
01:16:08,550 --> 01:16:06,880
is this this whole ancient aliens theory

1842
01:16:09,910 --> 01:16:08,560
i you know i have a real problem with it

1843
01:16:12,390 --> 01:16:09,920
because most of it is based on

1844
01:16:14,149 --> 01:16:12,400
mistranslated texts by zechariah sitchin

1845
01:16:14,630 --> 01:16:14,159
do you think there is anything to

1846
01:16:16,229 --> 01:16:14,640
ancient

1847
01:16:17,830 --> 01:16:16,239
alien theory that we may have been

1848
01:16:22,390 --> 01:16:17,840
visited in the past

1849
01:16:26,229 --> 01:16:22,400
or is this just misinterpreted

1850
01:16:28,709 --> 01:16:26,239
biblical myths gold myths from samaria

1851
01:16:29,510 --> 01:16:28,719
that people are mixing together sort of

1852
01:16:31,430 --> 01:16:29,520
drawing it

1853
01:16:33,990 --> 01:16:31,440
you know finding the evidence for the

1854
01:16:35,870 --> 01:16:34,000
conclusion that they've already made

1855
01:16:38,070 --> 01:16:35,880
i'll use that word again

1856
01:16:41,350 --> 01:16:38,080
conventionalization

1857
01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:41,360
that it's people imposing a

1858
01:16:49,669 --> 01:16:45,760
a 20th 21st century cookie cutter

1859
01:16:53,590 --> 01:16:49,679
on dough that

1860
01:16:57,030 --> 01:16:53,600
if you just leave it alone it'll take on

1861
01:16:59,270 --> 01:16:57,040
a much more powerful shape of its own

1862
01:17:00,630 --> 01:16:59,280
am i making sense there i think i yeah

1863
01:17:03,990 --> 01:17:00,640
sort of yeah

1864
01:17:06,149 --> 01:17:04,000
but my images well i remember though

1865
01:17:08,229 --> 01:17:06,159
being i remember being a you know being

1866
01:17:09,910 --> 01:17:08,239
a teenager when i first read cherry to

1867
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:09,920
the gods and all that stuff

1868
01:17:14,149 --> 01:17:12,080
and i gotta say it made sense to me it

1869
01:17:16,470 --> 01:17:14,159
was like there's the answer see these

1870
01:17:19,590 --> 01:17:16,480
priests were all wrong

1871
01:17:20,630 --> 01:17:19,600
it wasn't god that moses saw it was an

1872
01:17:23,110 --> 01:17:20,640
alien and

1873
01:17:24,950 --> 01:17:23,120
ezekiel saw aliens and they they didn't

1874
01:17:25,750 --> 01:17:24,960
understand aliens so they said it's got

1875
01:17:28,630 --> 01:17:25,760
to be god

1876
01:17:29,270 --> 01:17:28,640
because the technology that is so far

1877
01:17:31,750 --> 01:17:29,280
removed

1878
01:17:32,390 --> 01:17:31,760
is indistinguishable from magic right

1879
01:17:34,630 --> 01:17:32,400
yeah so

1880
01:17:35,910 --> 01:17:34,640
they they interpret it as magic it's a

1881
01:17:38,390 --> 01:17:35,920
good it's a good

1882
01:17:39,990 --> 01:17:38,400
theory but i think it falls apart when

1883
01:17:42,149 --> 01:17:40,000
people bring out their so-called

1884
01:17:44,229 --> 01:17:42,159
evidence you know i always love that

1885
01:17:46,310 --> 01:17:44,239
they cite the vamanas

1886
01:17:47,910 --> 01:17:46,320
and say they were in ancient texts no

1887
01:17:50,070 --> 01:17:47,920
they were in a channeled book from the

1888
01:17:53,110 --> 01:17:50,080
1950s

1889
01:17:55,590 --> 01:17:53,120
they were not from ancient vedic texts

1890
01:17:56,790 --> 01:17:55,600
yeah and we haven't another question i'm

1891
01:17:58,870 --> 01:17:56,800
not sure i understand

1892
01:18:02,310 --> 01:17:58,880
is the disclosure process akin to the

1893
01:18:04,790 --> 01:18:02,320
archetypal journey of the tree

1894
01:18:05,750 --> 01:18:04,800
i think i think that is a fascinating

1895
01:18:08,470 --> 01:18:05,760
question but i

1896
01:18:12,070 --> 01:18:08,480
do not understand it okay yeah you guys

1897
01:18:14,550 --> 01:18:12,080
got to get clearer with your questions

1898
01:18:16,149 --> 01:18:14,560
i mean it would really it would really

1899
01:18:19,510 --> 01:18:16,159
intrigue me

1900
01:18:22,709 --> 01:18:19,520
if the the whole idea of disclosure

1901
01:18:26,070 --> 01:18:22,719
has an archetypal mythic

1902
01:18:30,229 --> 01:18:26,080
quality about it and i'd like to hear

1903
01:18:32,950 --> 01:18:30,239
more about what uh this person thinks

1904
01:18:34,229 --> 01:18:32,960
yes spooky so ask the question in a

1905
01:18:37,510 --> 01:18:34,239
different way

1906
01:18:38,630 --> 01:18:37,520
uh we're talking live here with uh david

1907
01:18:40,709 --> 01:18:38,640
halperin

1908
01:18:43,590 --> 01:18:40,719
who is the author you have some other

1909
01:18:47,110 --> 01:18:43,600
books journal of a ufo researcher

1910
01:18:47,590 --> 01:18:47,120
uh which i uh i got and i'm halfway

1911
01:18:50,070 --> 01:18:47,600
through

1912
01:18:52,550 --> 01:18:50,080
that's a fictional book though yeah but

1913
01:18:54,950 --> 01:18:52,560
i have to believe that you drew

1914
01:18:56,550 --> 01:18:54,960
from your own real world experiences in

1915
01:18:58,950 --> 01:18:56,560
that book didn't you

1916
01:19:01,030 --> 01:18:58,960
yeah yeah i used to whenever i was asked

1917
01:19:03,830 --> 01:19:01,040
if it was autobiographical

1918
01:19:05,590 --> 01:19:03,840
i said well the car chases the

1919
01:19:08,470 --> 01:19:05,600
intergalactic sex

1920
01:19:11,990 --> 01:19:08,480
and the descent into the netherworld are

1921
01:19:16,390 --> 01:19:12,000
all autobiographical

1922
01:19:19,189 --> 01:19:16,400
however i made up that but that

1923
01:19:21,189 --> 01:19:19,199
that yeah the i mean the experience of

1924
01:19:23,030 --> 01:19:21,199
growing up in a house with a dying

1925
01:19:26,790 --> 01:19:23,040
mother which has shaped my

1926
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:26,800
entire life is you know that that

1927
01:19:32,310 --> 01:19:29,840
that is the real bedrock

1928
01:19:33,669 --> 01:19:32,320
reality in the book but a lot of the

1929
01:19:37,030 --> 01:19:33,679
book was based

1930
01:19:40,470 --> 01:19:37,040
on dreams i had at the time

1931
01:19:44,070 --> 01:19:40,480
like i remember one dream in which i was

1932
01:19:47,430 --> 01:19:44,080
in a rambling far out farmhouse

1933
01:19:51,830 --> 01:19:47,440
out in the country with a society

1934
01:19:52,550 --> 01:19:51,840
of teenagers who are like me were very

1935
01:19:56,630 --> 01:19:52,560
serious

1936
01:20:00,310 --> 01:19:56,640
i will not say nerds and interested

1937
01:20:02,790 --> 01:20:00,320
in the boundaries of science

1938
01:20:03,430 --> 01:20:02,800
and among them there was a beautiful

1939
01:20:06,709 --> 01:20:03,440
girl

1940
01:20:10,390 --> 01:20:06,719
in an evening dress and then i

1941
01:20:11,910 --> 01:20:10,400
woke up and journal of a ufo

1942
01:20:14,550 --> 01:20:11,920
investigator

1943
01:20:15,350 --> 01:20:14,560
was my fantasy of what might have

1944
01:20:19,110 --> 01:20:15,360
happened

1945
01:20:20,629 --> 01:20:19,120
if i hadn't woken up yeah don't you hate

1946
01:20:21,270 --> 01:20:20,639
that when you wake up from a dream that

1947
01:20:23,110 --> 01:20:21,280
you like

1948
01:20:25,030 --> 01:20:23,120
want to get back to even try to go back

1949
01:20:27,030 --> 01:20:25,040
to bed like i'm going back to sleep get

1950
01:20:27,510 --> 01:20:27,040
back to this this is just getting good

1951
01:20:30,870 --> 01:20:27,520
right

1952
01:20:32,790 --> 01:20:30,880
yeah yeah louis mongol made a

1953
01:20:34,229 --> 01:20:32,800
comment earlier that i just want for you

1954
01:20:36,390 --> 01:20:34,239
to comment on

1955
01:20:38,229 --> 01:20:36,400
uh says the worst thing for humans to

1956
01:20:39,830 --> 01:20:38,239
confront if it were true would be to

1957
01:20:42,070 --> 01:20:39,840
confront we might be alone

1958
01:20:43,270 --> 01:20:42,080
and after death there is nothing we

1959
01:20:45,510 --> 01:20:43,280
return to dirt

1960
01:20:47,510 --> 01:20:45,520
and that thought is horrifying to us as

1961
01:20:49,030 --> 01:20:47,520
a species

1962
01:20:50,709 --> 01:20:49,040
do you think that might have something

1963
01:20:53,189 --> 01:20:50,719
that might have something to do with our

1964
01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:53,199
belief in myths right

1965
01:20:56,790 --> 01:20:55,440
yeah but it's scary it's scary to

1966
01:20:59,110 --> 01:20:56,800
believe that there's

1967
01:21:00,310 --> 01:20:59,120
for me it's so scary to believe that

1968
01:21:04,629 --> 01:21:00,320
there's nothing after

1969
01:21:07,910 --> 01:21:04,639
death you know it's terrifying

1970
01:21:10,149 --> 01:21:07,920
yeah yeah and yet

1971
01:21:11,910 --> 01:21:10,159
i have to confess to you that that's

1972
01:21:14,790 --> 01:21:11,920
what i most basically

1973
01:21:16,070 --> 01:21:14,800
do believe even being a theology

1974
01:21:19,430 --> 01:21:16,080
professor

1975
01:21:19,750 --> 01:21:19,440
i'm a real i thought you taught i'm

1976
01:21:22,470 --> 01:21:19,760
sorry

1977
01:21:24,149 --> 01:21:22,480
religious studies professor which which

1978
01:21:27,030 --> 01:21:24,159
is uh which is a little bit different

1979
01:21:30,390 --> 01:21:28,790
so you're not like you're not a rabbi

1980
01:21:30,790 --> 01:21:30,400
you don't have to believe in these

1981
01:21:33,669 --> 01:21:30,800
things

1982
01:21:34,149 --> 01:21:33,679
you're you're a academic so you're free

1983
01:21:40,470 --> 01:21:34,159
to

1984
01:21:41,510 --> 01:21:40,480
right but obviously they have a deep

1985
01:21:44,070 --> 01:21:41,520
appeal to me

1986
01:21:46,709 --> 01:21:44,080
or i wouldn't have chosen to go into

1987
01:21:50,550 --> 01:21:46,719
that academic area

1988
01:21:52,149 --> 01:21:50,560
yeah and uh lee squatch asks uh he

1989
01:21:54,830 --> 01:21:52,159
wonders what your thoughts are on the

1990
01:21:56,149 --> 01:21:54,840
whole new age ascendant masters

1991
01:21:58,390 --> 01:21:56,159
perspective

1992
01:22:00,310 --> 01:21:58,400
we have a lot of new age gurus out there

1993
01:22:01,350 --> 01:22:00,320
trying to peddle their wares what do you

1994
01:22:04,550 --> 01:22:01,360
think of this

1995
01:22:07,669 --> 01:22:04,560
phenomenon of these ascended masters and

1996
01:22:10,070 --> 01:22:07,679
they always need money

1997
01:22:12,390 --> 01:22:10,080
i i wish i could answer the question i

1998
01:22:14,470 --> 01:22:12,400
just don't have the knowledge

1999
01:22:16,390 --> 01:22:14,480
yeah and uh one other question that i

2000
01:22:18,229 --> 01:22:16,400
neglected to ask you is what do you

2001
01:22:20,950 --> 01:22:18,239
think of all the hoaxers

2002
01:22:22,709 --> 01:22:20,960
ufo fraudsters and there seems to be

2003
01:22:25,030 --> 01:22:22,719
there seemed to be a shift in the last

2004
01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:25,040
five years in ufology and we have the

2005
01:22:27,590 --> 01:22:25,920
secret space

2006
01:22:29,110 --> 01:22:27,600
program people that are claiming that

2007
01:22:31,510 --> 01:22:29,120
they went to space and

2008
01:22:32,310 --> 01:22:31,520
fought aliens and time traveled and

2009
01:22:35,350 --> 01:22:32,320
things

2010
01:22:36,149 --> 01:22:35,360
or they they were super soldiers on mars

2011
01:22:39,430 --> 01:22:36,159
to fight

2012
01:22:41,350 --> 01:22:39,440
for some secret space force and there's

2013
01:22:43,270 --> 01:22:41,360
a complete total lack of any kind of

2014
01:22:44,709 --> 01:22:43,280
evidence with a lot of these people what

2015
01:22:47,990 --> 01:22:44,719
do you think of these ufo

2016
01:22:48,629 --> 01:22:48,000
and and secret space profiteers that are

2017
01:22:50,870 --> 01:22:48,639
out there

2018
01:22:52,070 --> 01:22:50,880
because they're always they're always

2019
01:22:55,430 --> 01:22:52,080
they always need money

2020
01:22:56,229 --> 01:22:55,440
buy my course pay me to attend your ufo

2021
01:22:57,990 --> 01:22:56,239
conference

2022
01:22:59,669 --> 01:22:58,000
but they don't seem to offer anything of

2023
01:23:03,030 --> 01:22:59,679
value to people

2024
01:23:07,310 --> 01:23:03,040
in my estimation i would have to give

2025
01:23:08,790 --> 01:23:07,320
my unscientific

2026
01:23:12,229 --> 01:23:08,800
[Music]

2027
01:23:15,270 --> 01:23:12,239
opinion and opinion not rested on any

2028
01:23:16,709 --> 01:23:15,280
resting on any surveys but to me it

2029
01:23:20,070 --> 01:23:16,719
would seem to me

2030
01:23:23,149 --> 01:23:20,080
that this is a very marginal

2031
01:23:25,590 --> 01:23:23,159
phenomenon in the ufo that

2032
01:23:28,390 --> 01:23:25,600
overwhelmingly it seems to me

2033
01:23:30,550 --> 01:23:28,400
we are dealing with people who have a

2034
01:23:34,590 --> 01:23:30,560
genuine engagement

2035
01:23:37,669 --> 01:23:34,600
with the ufo whether as

2036
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:37,679
experiences that they've in fact had

2037
01:23:44,629 --> 01:23:41,040
or else the myth that they've

2038
01:23:47,830 --> 01:23:44,639
absorbed and either advocate for

2039
01:23:49,830 --> 01:23:47,840
or attack and debunk because the

2040
01:23:53,189 --> 01:23:49,840
debunkers

2041
01:23:54,470 --> 01:23:53,199
it seems to me are no less emotionally

2042
01:23:57,510 --> 01:23:54,480
engaged with

2043
01:24:01,189 --> 01:23:57,520
ufos than the believers

2044
01:24:04,870 --> 01:24:01,199
and people like me who neither believe

2045
01:24:08,229 --> 01:24:04,880
nor debunk but who are utterly

2046
01:24:11,270 --> 01:24:08,239
enthralled to the ufos

2047
01:24:14,390 --> 01:24:11,280
and what they stand for so

2048
01:24:17,910 --> 01:24:14,400
yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna admit

2049
01:24:20,629 --> 01:24:17,920
that there are hucksters in the

2050
01:24:22,070 --> 01:24:20,639
in the field but even the one whom i

2051
01:24:25,270 --> 01:24:22,080
would regard as the

2052
01:24:27,669 --> 01:24:25,280
the prime example of a huckster george

2053
01:24:29,669 --> 01:24:27,679
adamski

2054
01:24:31,189 --> 01:24:29,679
oh yeah the early contactees were all

2055
01:24:34,709 --> 01:24:31,199
about the cash man

2056
01:24:38,950 --> 01:24:34,719
yeah but the late but jerry

2057
01:24:42,149 --> 01:24:38,960
clark in his ufo encyclopedia

2058
01:24:45,430 --> 01:24:42,159
has produced some evidence that even

2059
01:24:49,030 --> 01:24:45,440
adamski truly believed

2060
01:24:49,430 --> 01:24:49,040
that he was doing something real and how

2061
01:24:53,350 --> 01:24:49,440
that

2062
01:24:57,110 --> 01:24:53,360
is is a mystery i think it

2063
01:25:01,189 --> 01:24:57,120
i am so reluctant stephen to brush

2064
01:25:02,709 --> 01:25:01,199
anyone off yeah i tend to be a little i

2065
01:25:04,070 --> 01:25:02,719
tend to be a little quick to do it

2066
01:25:06,790 --> 01:25:04,080
because i just don't have time

2067
01:25:08,709 --> 01:25:06,800
so i i throw that one out you know but i

2068
01:25:10,950 --> 01:25:08,719
have lots of them in my grave basket

2069
01:25:11,990 --> 01:25:10,960
and we have an explanation which now i

2070
01:25:14,550 --> 01:25:12,000
understand the question is

2071
01:25:15,750 --> 01:25:14,560
very good question the spooky is asking

2072
01:25:18,870 --> 01:25:15,760
if the disclosure

2073
01:25:21,669 --> 01:25:18,880
process akin to the arctic art

2074
01:25:23,189 --> 01:25:21,679
typical journey of the tree of life from

2075
01:25:26,229 --> 01:25:23,199
the kabbalah

2076
01:25:30,310 --> 01:25:26,239
huh i

2077
01:25:32,149 --> 01:25:30,320
i can't think offhand of any useful

2078
01:25:35,189 --> 01:25:32,159
parallels

2079
01:25:38,390 --> 01:25:35,199
but i can't think does not mean

2080
01:25:42,229 --> 01:25:38,400
there are none i am open

2081
01:25:43,910 --> 01:25:42,239
to being educated on this

2082
01:25:45,270 --> 01:25:43,920
yeah and what what is your general

2083
01:25:47,990 --> 01:25:45,280
thoughts on the kabbalah

2084
01:25:49,830 --> 01:25:48,000
you know i i see a lot of hollywood

2085
01:25:53,990 --> 01:25:49,840
people like madonna

2086
01:25:56,470 --> 01:25:54,000
and uh lady gaga study the kabbalah

2087
01:25:59,189 --> 01:25:56,480
i think there's an extremely powerful

2088
01:26:04,070 --> 01:25:59,199
myth at the heart of it

2089
01:26:08,390 --> 01:26:04,080
i think perhaps among among the

2090
01:26:12,390 --> 01:26:08,400
truths that it conveys

2091
01:26:17,350 --> 01:26:12,400
is that sexual ecstasy

2092
01:26:22,390 --> 01:26:17,360
is about as close as most human beings

2093
01:26:23,669 --> 01:26:22,400
are likely to get to divine experience

2094
01:26:25,510 --> 01:26:23,679
yeah people have called it the little

2095
01:26:28,310 --> 01:26:25,520
death right yep

2096
01:26:29,830 --> 01:26:28,320
yep i felt that a few times david i have

2097
01:26:31,830 --> 01:26:29,840
been fortunate

2098
01:26:33,750 --> 01:26:31,840
yeah right that's you're gonna feel if

2099
01:26:37,510 --> 01:26:33,760
you wanna feel close to god

2100
01:26:40,709 --> 01:26:37,520
that moment is is pretty close right

2101
01:26:43,830 --> 01:26:40,719
the little death that's interesting i

2102
01:26:46,950 --> 01:26:43,840
think the kabbalah turns it into

2103
01:26:50,790 --> 01:26:46,960
a theosophy and to what's

2104
01:26:55,430 --> 01:26:50,800
sometimes a dazzling

2105
01:26:58,870 --> 01:26:55,440
kind of bible interpretation

2106
01:27:00,709 --> 01:26:58,880
and rodrigo vieira is here uh

2107
01:27:02,390 --> 01:27:00,719
and says david's right the more the

2108
01:27:05,270 --> 01:27:02,400
merrier to crack this mystery

2109
01:27:05,590 --> 01:27:05,280
all have a part yeah i believe i believe

2110
01:27:07,350 --> 01:27:05,600
that

2111
01:27:09,110 --> 01:27:07,360
everybody gets a place at the table and

2112
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:09,120
a place of the discussion

2113
01:27:16,629 --> 01:27:13,840
even me david amen rodrigo amen

2114
01:27:18,070 --> 01:27:16,639
stephen yeah well listen i can't thank

2115
01:27:20,390 --> 01:27:18,080
you enough for taking the time

2116
01:27:21,430 --> 01:27:20,400
to do this i hope that maybe we could

2117
01:27:25,030 --> 01:27:21,440
have you come on

2118
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:25,040
again and maybe during some of these

2119
01:27:29,270 --> 01:27:27,120
i'd like to do some shows on biblical

2120
01:27:30,070 --> 01:27:29,280
history and mysteries and things and i

2121
01:27:32,070 --> 01:27:30,080
think you're

2122
01:27:33,750 --> 01:27:32,080
well educated to help with that and that

2123
01:27:36,229 --> 01:27:33,760
would be my pleasure

2124
01:27:37,270 --> 01:27:36,239
well i thank you so much uh one last

2125
01:27:39,910 --> 01:27:37,280
question i can't

2126
01:27:42,470 --> 01:27:39,920
i can't not ask you this one what does

2127
01:27:43,110 --> 01:27:42,480
david make of aleister crowley's lem

2128
01:27:45,350 --> 01:27:43,120
being

2129
01:27:46,390 --> 01:27:45,360
if you're not familiar with it aleister

2130
01:27:48,390 --> 01:27:46,400
crowley drew

2131
01:27:49,750 --> 01:27:48,400
what looks like a gray alien in the

2132
01:27:53,270 --> 01:27:49,760
1920s

2133
01:27:56,390 --> 01:27:53,280
and said that he interacted with it

2134
01:27:59,030 --> 01:27:56,400
i need to know more about this

2135
01:27:59,990 --> 01:27:59,040
because this is right up my alley oh

2136
01:28:01,669 --> 01:28:00,000
i'll send you i'll

2137
01:28:03,669 --> 01:28:01,679
send it to you he talked to a being

2138
01:28:05,510 --> 01:28:03,679
named lem you can look it up just lem

2139
01:28:07,669 --> 01:28:05,520
being aleister crowley

2140
01:28:09,270 --> 01:28:07,679
and it looks like a gray alien it

2141
01:28:11,750 --> 01:28:09,280
totally looks exactly

2142
01:28:14,229 --> 01:28:11,760
well pretty close to our modern and our

2143
01:28:15,990 --> 01:28:14,239
modern depictions of a grey alien

2144
01:28:17,669 --> 01:28:16,000
and claimed that it was an ancient being

2145
01:28:18,550 --> 01:28:17,679
and he was interacting with it and

2146
01:28:20,229 --> 01:28:18,560
things like that

2147
01:28:22,709 --> 01:28:20,239
that was a big part of the alistar

2148
01:28:24,629 --> 01:28:22,719
crowley sort of mythology

2149
01:28:25,750 --> 01:28:24,639
there's another guy that created his own

2150
01:28:27,590 --> 01:28:25,760
myth he

2151
01:28:29,830 --> 01:28:27,600
he wanted to be a myth and sort of

2152
01:28:32,790 --> 01:28:29,840
became one right

2153
01:28:33,110 --> 01:28:32,800
yeah well i i wrote about oh it's lamb

2154
01:28:36,790 --> 01:28:33,120
it's

2155
01:28:39,189 --> 01:28:36,800
l-a-m not l-e-m so lamb l-a-m-b

2156
01:28:41,350 --> 01:28:39,199
i'll send you some stuff i have on that

2157
01:28:44,390 --> 01:28:41,360
i'd be happy to do it

2158
01:28:45,189 --> 01:28:44,400
well i wrote in intimate alien that the

2159
01:28:47,350 --> 01:28:45,199
face of

2160
01:28:49,750 --> 01:28:47,360
on whitley strieber's communion it may

2161
01:28:50,950 --> 01:28:49,760
be that when the human mind looks into

2162
01:28:53,669 --> 01:28:50,960
the darkness

2163
01:28:55,830 --> 01:28:53,679
that's the face it sees looking back and

2164
01:28:58,149 --> 01:28:55,840
it may be a lace to

2165
01:28:59,830 --> 01:28:58,159
also saw that face looking well that's

2166
01:29:01,830 --> 01:28:59,840
that's a terrifying face

2167
01:29:03,030 --> 01:29:01,840
that's a terrifying thing to see when we

2168
01:29:06,390 --> 01:29:03,040
look in the darkness

2169
01:29:07,990 --> 01:29:06,400
right wow so this has been an amazing

2170
01:29:09,189 --> 01:29:08,000
conversation i can't thank you enough

2171
01:29:11,510 --> 01:29:09,199
for doing this

2172
01:29:12,550 --> 01:29:11,520
i know uh we're just coming up on our

2173
01:29:14,629 --> 01:29:12,560
time limit here so

2174
01:29:15,590 --> 01:29:14,639
i'm gonna throw you out and play a quick

2175
01:29:18,070 --> 01:29:15,600
bumper out

2176
01:29:19,030 --> 01:29:18,080
and uh i'll be right back to you okay

2177
01:29:20,709 --> 01:29:19,040
david

2178
01:29:22,229 --> 01:29:20,719
thanks again and i wanna remind

2179
01:29:24,550 --> 01:29:22,239
everybody uh

2180
01:29:26,550 --> 01:29:24,560
we wanna i'm gonna or you know what i'm

2181
01:29:28,149 --> 01:29:26,560
gonna do this when i solo myself so they

2182
01:29:28,950 --> 01:29:28,159
can see the book bigger so i'm gonna

2183
01:29:30,629 --> 01:29:28,960
throw you away

2184
01:29:32,550 --> 01:29:30,639
i'll plug your book and where people can

2185
01:29:34,070 --> 01:29:32,560
get it play a quick bumper and i'll be

2186
01:29:35,830 --> 01:29:34,080
right back to you

2187
01:29:37,510 --> 01:29:35,840
thanks so much for doing this david

2188
01:29:39,510 --> 01:29:37,520
thank you my pleasure nate

2189
01:29:41,110 --> 01:29:39,520
all right i'll stand by i'll be right

2190
01:29:43,030 --> 01:29:41,120
back to you

2191
01:29:44,790 --> 01:29:43,040
all right friends so what an interesting

2192
01:29:48,709 --> 01:29:44,800
perspective and conversation

2193
01:29:51,510 --> 01:29:48,719
and again it's david j halperin

2194
01:29:52,070 --> 01:29:51,520
the book is intimate alien the hidden

2195
01:29:54,550 --> 01:29:52,080
story

2196
01:29:55,430 --> 01:29:54,560
of the ufo and if you've been struggling

2197
01:29:57,590 --> 01:29:55,440
and you're

2198
01:29:59,110 --> 01:29:57,600
looking into ufos and are looking for a

2199
01:30:00,950 --> 01:29:59,120
different perspective

2200
01:30:02,870 --> 01:30:00,960
i highly recommend this i can't tell you

2201
01:30:05,990 --> 01:30:02,880
how much i enjoyed it

2202
01:30:06,390 --> 01:30:06,000
uh it has been a pleasure both to read

2203
01:30:08,950 --> 01:30:06,400
the book

2204
01:30:09,590 --> 01:30:08,960
and to get to talk to the author and you

2205
01:30:11,750 --> 01:30:09,600
know i

2206
01:30:13,350 --> 01:30:11,760
can't tell you how happy i am that this

2207
01:30:16,870 --> 01:30:13,360
show gives me an opportunity

2208
01:30:19,510 --> 01:30:16,880
to get a passport right i get to

2209
01:30:20,709 --> 01:30:19,520
uh i get to talk to these experts and

2210
01:30:23,430 --> 01:30:20,719
and pick their brain

2211
01:30:25,430 --> 01:30:23,440
and try to learn more and it's been my

2212
01:30:26,629 --> 01:30:25,440
pleasure today to do that with mr

2213
01:30:29,189 --> 01:30:26,639
halperin

2214
01:30:30,790 --> 01:30:29,199
so friends uh until next time my name is

2215
01:30:33,110 --> 01:30:30,800
stephen cambion

2216
01:30:33,990 --> 01:30:33,120
uh i want to thank i'm always happy when

2217
01:30:36,629 --> 01:30:34,000
there's an audience

2218
01:30:38,709 --> 01:30:36,639
thank you for being a part of mine today

2219
01:30:41,750 --> 01:30:38,719
it has truly been my pleasure

2220
01:30:43,590 --> 01:30:41,760
uh until next time friends my name is

2221
01:30:45,750 --> 01:30:43,600
stephen cambion

2222
01:30:47,110 --> 01:30:45,760
uh i usually say good night but i'll say

2223
01:31:00,830 --> 01:30:47,120
good day today

2224
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:05,900
you

2225
01:31:05,910 --> 01:31:28,830
[Music]

2226
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:45,000
so

2227
01:32:24,200 --> 01:31:52,590
[Music]